New Posts New Posts RSS Feed: Foiling Laser
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Register Register  Login Login

Foiling Laser
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 9>
Author
  Share Topic Share Topic  Topic Search Topic Search  Topic Options Topic Options
Mark Jardine View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 12 Mar 04
Location: Milford-on-Sea, United King
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 1028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Mark Jardine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Foiling Laser
    Posted: 06 Aug 13 at 2:22pm
Originally posted by Richard20Sailing

The linkage between the wand and control foil is brilliant. This is so much simpler and more rigid then the moth system. This upgrade could be added to any boat/class by simply bolting in a new centreboard and rudder. I think the concept could revolutionise our sport as it is so simple and even works on a laser!


I think on a bosun you'd need to pair up the wand with some Airbus A380 wings...
Back to Top
i tick View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 15 Jul 13
Location: Tunstead Milton
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 93 		Post Options Post Options   Quote i tick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 13 at 2:27pm
Is there not a foiling windsurfer? I seem to remember a video in which a non foiling board is going faster?
Back to Top
Dan Vincent View Drop Down
Groupie
Groupie


Joined: 21 Nov 07
Location: United States
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 45 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dan Vincent Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Aug 13 at 2:42pm
Centreboard mounted wands have been tried and rejected by the Moth Class ( I think there are photos of John Illett sailing a lime coloured boat with a similar system at the Blackrock Worlds in 2006ish) because although they make the control system shorter, simpler and more direct, the wand is sensing the water level behind the mainfoil. 
 
While this will probably work well enough in flat water or slight chop, there is no way it can detect the presence of a big trough or wave peak, until after the foil has encountered it.  It is likely that in waves this could result in a number of hilarious crashes or even amusing cartwheels.  Not this is a bad thing, as long as the boat/ foils/ wand are robust enough to take the punishment.
 
The other vulnerability will be capsize recovery as the sailors slip around on the centreboard trying to avoid stepping on the wand. 
 
Having said all that I think this could be a brilliant way of introducing more people to the joy of foiling.
Back to Top
Chris 249 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 10 May 04
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 13 at 8:37am
I'm trying to NOT be a negative old fart, but when I think about how it will affect something like my old or current clubs (70 or so active Lasers in total) I have a feeling that one or two people could buy the foil sets, use them to reach around a few days when the wind is right, lend them to their mates, and then gradually forget about them or get a Moth.
 
I love the Laser but, as others have said, it's not really suited to this application. The Moth is different; the boat is vastly more efficient and sensitive. One wonders whether foiling a Laser could maybe feel more like flying a hull on a fast cat; you're suspended above the water, but not on something as tiny and efficient as a Moth.
 
As a windsurfer I may have a different attitude to other sailors, though; for us "flying" can mean hanging upside down 25' up in the air or going for full loops. The only time I foiled (Prowler Moth) it was definitely fun, but more for the speed and just to get back on a Moth again rather than the flying. And years of windsurfing on shortboards, with all that means in sitting around getting frustrated when it's not windy, may have made me allergic to boats that prefer hard breezes.


Edited by Chris 249 - 07 Aug 13 at 8:39am
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 13 at 11:00am
Light winds or racing, sail it as a Laser. When the wind picks up, bung the foils on and have a different kind of fun, if so inclined. Can't see what the problem is - if you don't like the idea, don't sail it - I don't think the few who do will affect Laser racing in any way at all - in fact, it might bring others to the class because of the foiling option, if they fancy it, but their own boat can't be adapted.

Personally, it is something I'd like to have a go at some time (a nice stable platform so no panic like I'd have in a Moth) but can't imagine owning - bit like speed boats and windsurfing.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
JimC View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more
Avatar

Joined: 17 May 04
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Aug 13 at 12:45pm
I don't think there's a problem per se, but unless the designers have managed to do something extraordinarily clever I suspect it will be a one trick pony - reach about at high speed in the right weather, but not do anything else.

There have been a lot of attempts at foilers both before and after the moths, and the things that distinguish the moths from all the other attempts is that the Moths do the job of being a decent racing boat better than all the others.

If all you want to do is reach around at speed you'd surely use a board or a kitesurfer. I think the fate of the one trick pony is demonstrated by the Hobie trifoiler.

I suspect the average Laser sailor would get more fun from spending the money on a supply of new mainsails...
Back to Top
Richard20Sailing View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 30 Jul 11
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 22 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Richard20Sailing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 13 at 2:37pm
For me the Hobie trifoiler was a legend. (mythological creature from the past with magical powers). I am excited at seeing the possible conversion of ordinary manageable dingies to something much faster. Imagine the cheap fun of a foiling Iso or laser 4 tonner (big wings for both) or any other boat with a bit of grunt.

I fear that Dan Vincent is probably right and the wand at the same bit of water as the foil leads to problems in waves. However we have learnt so much about foiling since 2006 that this simple solution may work. I understand that adjustable wand length and variable gearing has given the mothies the control they needs. Maybe now hydrofoiling could be simplified. It could save sailing.
To many shackles are never enough.
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 13 at 2:48pm
Originally posted by Richard20Sailing

It could save sailing.


Save sailing from what?
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
Richard20Sailing View Drop Down
Newbie
Newbie


Joined: 30 Jul 11
Location: United Kingdom
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 22 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Richard20Sailing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 13 at 2:52pm
Reducing numbers of adult participants at a club level, which has been discussed many times on this forum. 
To many shackles are never enough.
Back to Top
Rupert View Drop Down
Really should get out more
Really should get out more


Joined: 11 Aug 04
Location: Whitefriars sc
Online Status: Offline
Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08 Aug 13 at 3:03pm
I think the problem is somewhat more complex than that. I agree it could give a boost to flagging interest in a small minority, but it will never be more than a sideshow - there are probably more people sailing scows in the Solent area than sailing hydrofoils world wide.
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <12345 9>

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy