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Campaigning with electric cars.
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Campaigning with electric cars.
    Posted: 30 Nov 18 at 9:35pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Tyres ? Surely they are from a sustainable source ?


Me thinks I should have read Wikipedia before I posted that. I thought they were petroleum based, but at least I know there's plenty of plastic in them now, and that's not good anymore either.

Ok what about road surfaces? Still using bitumen based at the moment so I guess a real chance of recycling plastic for that? However what do you do with it when it breaks down, how many times can you recycle it?

Sorry I'm having a real thick evening
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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Oatsandbeans View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Oatsandbeans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 18 at 9:35pm
Hydrogen pressure vessels taking 700bar are available right now in type 3-( metal liner with carbon overwrap) and the costs are falling as they become commercialised and volumes increase. They will only get lighter and lower cost and higher pressure, as they sort out the next generation plastic liner carbon over-wrapped cylinders. So I Think that in 10 years we may have hydrogen powered cars driving around. I haven't looked at the numbers but you would have to think that it would be more energy efficient than batteries, and hydrogen isn't as hazardous as some people think -it takes quite a bit to make it go bang compared to petrol for example.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 18 at 9:52pm
Maxibuddah,
Road surfaces use a minimal amount compared to amount of fuel used being driven over them, plus their are cobbles  LOL and 'singing' concrete.

Oatsandbeans,
Hydrogen is recovered from fossil fuels, needs another production method.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 18 at 10:07pm
Hydrogen recovered from water, surely?
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 18 at 10:38pm
95% of Hydrogen produced from Wood and Fossil fuels.
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 18 at 10:43pm
Pity. Saw a programme about Honda once where it was coming from seawater, using power from a waterfall. Not scalable, I guess. Could solve sea level issues, too... (as this is the internet, I'd better explain that this was a joke...)
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 18 at 11:05pm
Lots of Hydrogen, problem is it's always joined to something else, Carbon and Oxygen mainly, you can seperate from Oxygen using electricity passed through water, known as 'Browns gas' needs more energy to create than gained

Edited by 423zero - 30 Nov 18 at 11:06pm
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 18 at 7:32am
Hence the waterfall, as freeish energy on a small scale.
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pondlife1736 View Drop Down
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Posts: 106 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondlife1736 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Dec 18 at 5:41pm
Originally posted by Oatsandbeans

Hydrogen pressure vessels taking 700bar are available right now in type 3-( metal liner with carbon overwrap) and the costs are falling as they become commercialised and volumes increase. They will only get lighter and lower cost and higher pressure, as they sort out the next generation plastic liner carbon over-wrapped cylinders. So I Think that in 10 years we may have hydrogen powered cars driving around. I haven't looked at the numbers but you would have to think that it would be more energy efficient than batteries, and hydrogen isn't as hazardous as some people think -it takes quite a bit to make it go bang compared to petrol for example.

I'm sure the victims of the Hindenburg disaster would disagree strongly!
In fact hydrogen is an order of magnitude more flammable and explosive than petrol. Being a liquid, petrol has to be vaporised before it will burn, so is inherently safer.

You can buy a hydrogen fuel cell car today if you wish, but it really makes no sense without a developed infrastructure. I find it hard to believe that a robust, rupture-proof high pressure tank and fuel handling systems plus that fuel cell will ever be lower cost than a battery, but who knows. Whatever, the auto industry did its sums and concluded that the future was electrification via batteries. The choice is made for us. 
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Dangerousday View Drop Down
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Posts: 79 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Dangerousday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Dec 18 at 12:36pm
Petrol flash point is -43 C so though, yes, it does have to be a vapour before it will ignite, practically there aren't that many places on Earth where it won't.
Quite possibly the most dangerous substance both for being flammable and the nasties it contains that anyone deals with regularly.
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