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Campaigning with electric cars.
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Campaigning with electric cars.
    Posted: 29 Nov 18 at 11:38pm
Originally posted by 423zero

I watch concerts on YouTube a lot, modern and old stuff, been watching Bowies 'Glass spider tour' from the 80's brilliant

So do I but the audio quality is pretty poor. Thankfully good songs transcend the medium and you can listen to a poor recording (vintage shellac recordings of the old blues guys for example) and get the excitement and magic of the performance. Audio quality is not the be all and end all (spoken as a long time semi pro sound guy) but it definitely helps.
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Posts: 742 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 18 at 12:45am
Originally posted by pondlife1736


Hydrogen is just about the worst transport fuel you could imagine. You can't practically liquify it so need enormous pressure to compress enough of it into a sensible tank size for a useful range. Quite apart from the cost and complexity of the tank, the energy required to compress it to that degree is greater than you ever get out. No amount of technology development can overcome these fundamentals.
Added to that is the difficulty of keeping it in place; hydrogen tends to leak from conventional seals.
If it was such a great fuel, we'd be burning it in combustion engined cars by now.
Hydrogen is one of the main reasons the auto industry abandoned the fuel cell as viable for mainstream passenger cars, 20+ years ago.

Compressibility isn't an issue any more and the technology keeps improving. The real challenge with hydrogen is the full life-cycle energy conversion efficiency is not that great whether through reforming or electrolysis. The Orkney islands have shown that Hydrogen can certainly work to store energy when you have excess renewables and you don't get the transmission losses associated with remote battery storage. Fuel cells are also improving dramatically as we understand the impact of impurities and how to maintain performance of electrodes.

Neither batteries or hydrogen is the perfect solution, but a combination of the two is probably the best we are going to get, with the exact balance determined by technological advances in both fields.






Edited by rb_stretch - 30 Nov 18 at 12:49am
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 18 at 7:54am
Fair amount of research going on into coal slurry diesel engines.
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 18 at 9:25am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons


Originally posted by Emilio Castelli


Originally posted by maxibuddah


Originally posted by Emilio Castelli


Originally posted by maxibuddah

just like there's no need for vinyl or CDs with Spotify and the like, but they still buy them.

Do you have ears?
E

Pardon?

If you actually listen to music you would quickly notice there is no comparison in quality between streaming and vinyl/CD.
E

And, by the same token, there is no comparison between vinyl and CD either. But you can only tell CD is best if you listen to it on a decent system. Streaming is usually pretty cr*p (even DAB broadcasts are often poor) but the source material most listen to is mastered with streaming in mind and if you're listening on a laptop or phone you have no chance of hearing the difference anyway.


And in so saying Sam I think you prove my point. We buy stuff because we can get generally better quality and be what we want. I use streaming because it makes little difference with my sub standard hearing and is convenient. You don't. Why would you do that with boats? The go to a centre and rent a boat may be convenient and mean you don't tow a boat around, but it's not what you want, you want your own boat that is to your level of quality and desire. I don't see that changing any time soon. It's the same with classic cars
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 18 at 10:19am
Downloading (and, I believe, streaming) is possible at the highest quality but 'the yoof' seem happy to listen to 'music' on smartphone speakers....... 
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 18 at 11:40am
Originally posted by Sam.Spoons

Downloading (and, I believe, streaming) is possible at the highest quality but 'the yoof' seem happy to listen to 'music' on smartphone speakers ....... 


I regularly listen to streaming or downloads on my phone via headphones while being bored at my desk, helps the day along. I wish it had been this easy prior to ripping all my CDs and copying all my vinyl to MP3. MP3 not best quality of course but allowed me to listen at work before the streaming. Now though I've got 40 million songs to choose from....

Edited by maxibuddah - 30 Nov 18 at 11:41am
Everything I say is my opinion, honest
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 18 at 11:42am
When they've sorted out the propulsion method they'd better turn to the tyres, they won't be around forever
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pondlife1736 View Drop Down
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Posts: 106 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondlife1736 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 18 at 3:59pm
Originally posted by rb_stretch

Originally posted by pondlife1736


Hydrogen is just about the worst transport fuel you could imagine. You can't practically liquify it so need enormous pressure to compress enough of it into a sensible tank size for a useful range. Quite apart from the cost and complexity of the tank, the energy required to compress it to that degree is greater than you ever get out. No amount of technology development can overcome these fundamentals.
Added to that is the difficulty of keeping it in place; hydrogen tends to leak from conventional seals.
If it was such a great fuel, we'd be burning it in combustion engined cars by now.
Hydrogen is one of the main reasons the auto industry abandoned the fuel cell as viable for mainstream passenger cars, 20+ years ago.

Compressibility isn't an issue any more and the technology keeps improving. The real challenge with hydrogen is the full life-cycle energy conversion efficiency is not that great whether through reforming or electrolysis. The Orkney islands have shown that Hydrogen can certainly work to store energy when you have excess renewables and you don't get the transmission losses associated with remote battery storage. Fuel cells are also improving dramatically as we understand the impact of impurities and how to maintain performance of electrodes.

Neither batteries or hydrogen is the perfect solution, but a combination of the two is probably the best we are going to get, with the exact balance determined by technological advances in both fields.






Not sure what you mean by "compressibility isn't an issue..". A usable mass of hydrogen occupies a large volume at room temperature, so you have to squeeze it hard (using lots of energy in the process) to carry it around in a car. Hence FCV's need 700 bar hydrogen tanks just to get to the shops and back! I admire your technofaith, but this is just basic physics.

I think the Orkney project (producing hydrogen using excess renewable electricity) is about static power generation. Storage volume is not such an issue so you don't need the pressure. I agree that hydrogen can be part of the energy mix; my point was that it has huge disadvantages as a transport fuel.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 18 at 5:58pm
Here’s an electric vehicle that ought to be able to tow your boat
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Nov 18 at 6:50pm
Tyres ? Surely they are from a sustainable source ?
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