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Hadron H2

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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Hadron H2
    Posted: 17 Feb 17 at 9:42am
The Aero got traction because it was marketed professionally by the only seriously professional company in the entire crappy business, so it's easy for them. They are impervious to the negative forces applied by the petty infighting of the rest of the business and it's pathetic resistance to new products wherever they come from.

I don't get it, I just don't see why they can't realise the damage the whole sport suffers when boats like this are artificially hampered by the sort of none sense that obvious 'spoiler' tactics get employed by the PYAG class protection Nazis and whoever is pulling the same strings at Sailjuice. Being a direct to market business with no dealer infrastructure it's all so very damaging to the promotion of new products which in themselves if successful could bring with them new aspirants to a moribund sport.

It's all so screwed up.
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gordon1277 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon1277 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 17 at 9:45am
Hi Keith
From your link,(Nice hull colour) boat 107 has amuch better layout for control lines, sitting on those cleats would be a nightmare.
At the moment still enjoying my Phantom and events to much but would consider one as stated in the future.
Grf
Thanks for finding those shots.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 17 at 9:59am
Originally posted by gordon1277

Hi Keith
From your link,(Nice hull colour) boat 107 has amuch better layout for control lines, sitting on those cleats would be a nightmare.

Yup that does look nicer. I think I would prefer strops to the hoop if only because you'd have more room up front.

One totally trivial, subjective comment, I don't like the aesthetics of the 'sawn off' quarter decks (same with 'nova and EPS which have a similar design feature). It seems to me the only thing about H2 that will date. And, as a lightweight, I find myself needing to get as far back as possible on windy reaches.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 17 at 10:02am
I just don't see why they can't realise the damage the whole sport suffers when boats like this are artificially hampered by the sort of none sense that obvious 'spoiler' tactics get employed by the PYAG class protection Nazis and whoever is pulling the same strings at Sailjuice.... etc etc .

Our resident conspiracy theorists wallow in this sort of ‘discussion’.  Logic must be that if you repeat stuff, any stuff, often enough you create a new reality.  There is enough of this b***ocks doing the rounds in general society so I suppose we must expect some of the same here ...  

I see no 'conspiracy' myself – there is little more than traditional indifference out there.  Sure things could be better for new classes trying to gain traction, I for one should know, but to suggest that someone pulls the strings at Sailjuice etc simply to thwart new entrants is just plain misguided and unhelpful. 

Sorry GRF .. you don’t encourage beneficial change that could help by implying there is a plot against (name class(es) here).     The less interesting truth is almost certainly indifference is at play and to confront that you need to start barking up the right trees first.     

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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 17 at 10:11am
And of course you with absolutely no commercial involvement would welcome new boats from all builders competing on a level playing field..

So now, explain to me with logic, why new boats are given artificially high handicaps by your chums at Sail Juice, give me one good solid reason for that and I'll admit there's nothing going on.

Edited by iGRF - 17 Feb 17 at 10:13am
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zeon View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote zeon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 17 at 11:17am
If I remember correctly the first great lakes numbers for the aero/zero weren't that far away from the current rya numbers. Am sure someone ( Jim c/Paul etc ) will correct me if I am wrong. :)
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 17 at 11:32am
Originally posted by zeon

If I remember correctly the first great lakes numbers for the aero/zero weren't that far away from the current rya numbers. Am sure someone ( Jim c/Paul etc ) will correct me if I am wrong. :)


And of course there is absolutely no collusion nor common members between those two August bodies, both of whom positively discriminate against new boats.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote guesswho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 17 at 11:39am
Gentlemen, I started this to introduce the Hadron dinghy in both its forms, H1 and H2 . For some reason the subject matter keeps drifting way off topic. Please desist. The Hadron is a cracking dinghy, it is different and does need looking at with an open mind. The internal fit out of the hull is entirely up to the owner, Simon Hipkin will fit it out as you wish. The dinghy is still in its relatively early stages and is not being pushed as some of the other designs are, certainly not as the ones with a huge budget. The PY number will only settle if more are raced so thats going to take time. The only way to really find out if this dinghy is for you is to sail it. Keith and Simon have two demonstrators and are willing to let folk sail them. Age and size are immaterial the rig is multi adjustable and with a bit of thought can be depowered to suit most. I am biased I own one. Give it a try and open your minds.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Keith_Callaghan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 17 at 12:09pm
"but to suggest that someone pulls the strings at Sailjuice etc simply to thwart new entrants is just plain misguided and unhelpful".
I agree with Cirrus here. Simon Lovesey has bent over backwards to encourage participation of the H2s in the Sailjuice series. And I can understand the disadvantageous handicapping (the H2 was given 1015) - there is minimal quantitative performance data for the H2 yet, and all competitors would understandably be peeved off if such a boat won on a 'dodgy' handicap. Remember 'Punk'?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 17 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by guesswho

Gentlemen, I started this to introduce the Hadron dinghy in both its forms, H1 and H2 . For some reason the subject matter keeps drifting way off topic. Please desist. The Hadron is a cracking dinghy, it is different and does need looking at with an open mind. The internal fit out of the hull is entirely up to the owner, Simon Hipkin will fit it out as you wish. The dinghy is still in its relatively early stages and is not being pushed as some of the other designs are, certainly not as the ones with a huge budget. The PY number will only settle if more are raced so thats going to take time. The only way to really find out if this dinghy is for you is to sail it. Keith and Simon have two demonstrators and are willing to let folk sail them. Age and size are immaterial the rig is multi adjustable and with a bit of thought can be depowered to suit most. I am biased I own one. Give it a try and open your minds.

Live by the sword and die by the sword

To be fair the points that guesswho makes about the H2 are valid, except for the desist order, which to some will be a red rag to some.

Upon reflection the marketing is about right, this is a niche product ... it fits the niche well and will sell to those in the niche ... so as long as they are aware of the H2's existance and can try one of the demonstrators all is well.

If I had any critique of the marketing, it is that the early demonstrators were not quite as sorted as they could have been, and one of the big budget companies would have sorted this, but I am sure these issues have been resolved on later boats ... i.e. position of controls, tiller angle, lack of bottle holder.  I would also have a bit of pro-grip on the back tank.

I would not be worried about the transom width refered to by a previous poster, I sailed on a "going down the mine" day and I did not need to get back to the transom.
Happily living in the past
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