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    Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 8:24pm
Originally posted by Rupert

Back in the 70's, the Laser was a sexy boat!



Er.. I was in the seventies and I hate to burst your love bubble, but .......
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Nick Peters Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 8:38pm
Just caught up with this thread - and yes, well said Clive! As some of you know I was responsible for the development of the RS100, as I was for virtually the entire RS range up until the end of 2011.

I have often looked back at the classes and wondered what we might have done differently with the benefit of hindsight...and frankly the RS100 rates up there with the best in my view - it is what it is, and is pretty darn good at what it does. Interestingly the centreboard was voted for by 48 of 53 people who were involved in the consultation - and boy does it help to be able to rake it from hiking if the breeze increases. What would we have done differently? Well, of course, probably one rig - the market felt big enough for 2 rigs when we started and when catering for 70-100kgs weight range, hard to see how one does the job. The situation was exacerbated by many sailors buying 8.4s due to lack of confidence when they were clearly big enough for the 10.2. This feeds into the sh market and the problem continues. Of course you could say the class is now a one rig boat with the unique benefit of standard equipment, class rules and structure allowing greater growth of the bigger rig class in the future.

As you know the boat was never the subject of a glamorous marketing campaign - we consulted a huge number of customers, created this thread on this forum, and went to boat shows....and you know what, sailors just wanted the boat, and still do - it keeps on selling! (mind you I am not involved now, but I hear good reports). 

Our experience was consistently that after 3-5 years of a racing class' life upto 10% of the boats built would be up for sale at any one time - this was true of the 200, 300, 400, 600, 700, and 800. So 15 boats is actually very healthy. We often panicked and wondered what we had done wrong - but the reality is that many people buy a desirable product who find it is not for them and it takes time for those boats to find the right owners. The RS300 was the ultimate example of that - at one time 20% of all boats built were evidently for sale - now look! Classes that grew more slowly - like the MPS - did not show this trend. (Interestingly I gather last year the 700 outsold the MPS, so what goes around comes around - there are no rights or wrongs to any of this that i can see)

The RS100 will remain one of my favourite boats of all time, and actually upwind in a breeze with the 10.2 fully bladed out, the board a third up, working the sheet and locked into a comfy hiking position is right up there great sailing memories. 

I sail a Solo now most of the time because we have a huge fleet (upto 25 boats for a club race, and an average of 13 for every race) makes for great racing in our tidally restricted harbour. Do I look forward to sailing the Solo like I did the 100 - of course not! 

Nick.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 8:40pm
Ok, well I had the Rs100 for a season and I have been sailing the  D-one for 5 weeks. The real issue is that any boat where a single bloke is going to handle a decent sized sail plus a decent sized spinnaker in a boat that is going to sail under 1000 is going to be a handful in a breeze. Both boats are reasonably easy for a competent dinghy sailor up to say 12 knots. However once the breeze builds either will need plenty of practice. In my opinion neither is a boat you can drop in and out of, having not sailed for a few weeks and expect to sail them easily in a good breeze. They both demand practice as well as the racing and plenty of sailors just don't have that free time with busy lives and families, but perhaps got carried away, yes, perhaps bought into the hype at the time and thought 'well once I crack it, that's it' . Unfortunately, unless you are a small handful of non mortals, that is definitely not 'it'. In my opinion the 100 is a bit more tricky, it has more rocker and less leverage upwind so you have to work harder. I am one of the sailors that for a proportion of the year has my 3-4 hours on a Sunday morning, but no more, so I have the practice issue. Is the d one attainable - hell yes, is it a great boat up and downwind - yes, but do I have the time available to be able to sail it competitively on a breezy rough sea without practice.. err probably and sadly not. I have even considered buying a secondhand one and agreeing a kite free py with my club as it is still easy to gybe with just the main up and the wings are the most comfortable hikers going. You sit high out of the spray and can look around - That is the aptly named D 0.5 ! 

So in answer to mike as well, I personally don't think the sailing masses need another kite singlehander. The only way to really reduce the practice time is more stability, which is slow unless you go multihull like a Weta.

A lightweight blaze style boat with hiking benches a la d-one is a great idea.... but the blaze class association may not like that one Shocked .........unless you want to have very big b**ls like the Supernova class and say to hell with it let's take unnecessary weight out anyway! It caused a lot of grumbling when it happened, but two years later the regular sailors have migrated and the class is stronger than it's ever been. May make 65 + at the nationals which would have been unthinkable 3 years ago. 

The blaze is the only 'everyman boat' with leverage and a single sail, so it has a real usp. I am actually quite surprised their hasn't been another, but that's because Mikes done such a good job with it. 

The Dzero and the aero, the blaze (and of course the Supernova etc) are however boats that will be fast on the sea in a breeze and will of course benefit from practice, but sail one every Sunday and you will have a good time without having having to reacclimatise to often.  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 8:46pm
Nick, yep, heard you were sailing a solo. For goodness sake man what's happened to you. The biggest dinghy fleet where I am is the scow, but wild horses.............. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 9:27pm
Well written post there Clive, agree with a lot of it and understand you are coming in to defend the 100 so perhaps a tiny bit unbalanced, but then so is my post.  I think that posh event was a little extreme, but I would not say the 100's were driven harder downhill then the d1's (why would I, I was leading the event after day1). The d1, does not need to be breasted around the course and is inherently more stable than the 100 so looks easier in my opinion.  It was also pretty breezy at that event (don't think you will disagree) and I had no problem with nose diving, neither has specky.  Albeit it's fair to say it can be bow happy in lumpier waters , but pitchpoling is not something that I have seen properly happen.  I agree with nick about the ideal weight range he is 86kg and 6'3 (?) perfect for just about any class.  But he is not a normal sailor, the wings help people like Charlie chandler (current national champion) weighing 70-75kg race on the same course as myself and Dave Gorringe at much much more.  The racing is really close across the fleet and nick by no means has it his own way mixing it with others in the fleet half his weight again.  Like I said the boat is not perfect, but then I don't think any boat is, sailing is all about compromise and that the best thing about the sport, our equipment is very versatile across a range of conditions.  I think one thing worth pointing out is that Nick Craig is the class treasurer and dearly loves his D1, I don't think he would share that commitment if he wasn't satisfied he was in a great boat, with great racing.

Anyway, I'm sure we don't want to start a d1 vs 100 debate AGAIN, it does neither class any favours.  It sent me round the twist and I can't be bothered to deal with the pm's again to be honest! Both boats are finding their level and offer some differnt options to the end user.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 9:55pm
Hold the horses !   I'm sorting out a 'one-off' special that will simply use an available (but very lightweight) hull with what we think might be interesting.  Much beyond that is simply speculation but it will be facinating to compare it to the D-I and 100 on the water - especially as it would be the only one ofthe three that would sport a stayed mast.  Even as a one-tme OK/Laser helm I'm still to be convinced about the characteristics and sutability of un-stayed rigs for these types - but that is just my current opinion/bias.

I think the market is relatively limited for this sort of boat anyway - hence Cirrus avoiding it in the past and keeping the Blaze a little more 'purist' and focussed.  My simple conviction is that a great many have still to try Blaze sailing (or Fire or Halo)  here yet and even fewer outside of  the UK and a couple of nearby countries in Europe.  Our main job is to work on that .... We are totally fine with what we are doing already and have a hell of a lot of potential still to explore with partner builders currently here and very possibly overseas as well in the future.

This project is intended to be a bit of exploratory one and simply fun ... and if we were ever convinced it was commercially attractive, which is not at all that likely at the moment, we'd most likely commission a different hull design for all the bits and pieces to go on.   

Mike L.      
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 10:02pm
A gentle reminder Mike: the 100 rig is not actually unstayed - it has shrouds but no forestay - idea being to keep the mast in boat downwind. Upwind they do little or nothing. Downwind, no forestay to get in way of gybing the kite
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 10:02pm
Originally posted by Null

Well written post there Clive, agree with a lot of it and understand you are coming in to defend the 100 so perhaps a tiny bit unbalanced, but then so is my post.  I think that posh event was a little extreme, but I would not say the 100's were driven harder downhill then the d1's (why would I, I was leading the event after day1). The d1, does not need to be breasted around the course and is inherently more stable than the 100 so looks easier in my opinion.  It was also pretty breezy at that event (don't think you will disagree) and I had no problem with nose diving, neither has specky.  Albeit it's fair to say it can be bow happy in lumpier waters , but pitchpoling is not something that I have seen properly happen.  I agree with nick about the ideal weight range he is 86kg and 6'3 (?) perfect for just about any class.  But he is not a normal sailor, the wings help people like Charlie chandler (current national champion) weighing 70-75kg race on the same course as myself and Dave Gorringe at much much more.  The racing is really close across the fleet and nick by no means has it his own way mixing it with others in the fleet half his weight again.  Like I said the boat is not perfect, but then I don't think any boat is, sailing is all about compromise and that the best thing about the sport, our equipment is very versatile across a range of conditions.  I think one thing worth pointing out is that Nick Craig is the class treasurer and dearly loves his D1, I don't think he would share that commitment if he wasn't satisfied he was in a great boat, with great racing.

Anyway, I'm sure we don't want to start a d1 vs 100 debate AGAIN, it does neither class any favours.  It sent me round the twist and I can't be bothered to deal with the pm's again to be honest! Both boats are finding their level and offer some differnt options to the end user.

What was disappointing with POSH last year was that the 100s and D1s did not start together. Missed opportunity.

Sadly, the re-scheduled POSH this year clashes with one of our opens I think, but perhaps in 2015 we can have some fun racing each other. That'd be far more fun than sharing a course and start with 600s


Edited by fab100 - 03 Jun 14 at 10:05pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 10:10pm
Originally posted by blaze720



Mike L.

PS - I'll leave GRF perhaps to introduce a seperate thread in due course ... he knows enough already !        

Whoa. There are many things about grumph one can say, but please don't ever let him think he "knows enough." 

Demonstrably, he has black-holes in his knowledge to go with the the lunatic theories that defy the laws of physics, demonstrating only that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Jun 14 at 10:12pm
Clive agreed, I was frankly gob smacked.  But we were told that the 100 class had requested it specifically!  Py to one side we could have some great racing boat on boat which is what interests me, the but of glass I won for coming second means nothing but a good race Mano El Mano ticks my box!  

I have now bowed out of sailing a D1, certainly for the short term anyway.  My life has changed direction with work and other hobbies and it just doesn't fit in with my life anymore.  So it's a zero for me, for now.
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