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Andymac ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Apr 07 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 852 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 08 Nov 11 at 1:54pm |
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I have just read a recent thread on the Merlin Rocket forum, and gather that Geoff Carveth has taken the redress decision to RYA appeal.
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RS400atC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
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Is there a time limit? Surely the appeal needed to be before the last race to be of any use? I suppose an appeal is the correct way to resolve this farce, which has done nobody any favours. Particularly not HISC, highlighting the unfortunate choice of redress in a 'wise after the event' fashion will not make club members want to get involved in running races or protest committees. Certainly makes me think twice about volunteering at my own club (I'll do safety boat and keep out of the flak). |
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Andymac ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 04 Apr 07 Location: Derbyshire Online Status: Offline Posts: 852 |
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As far as I can remember, there is a 15 day limit for the appealant after the protest committee's final decision. The protest committee can also send their own decision to the RYA for review, not sure if there is a time limit for that.
Appeals are certainly held after the final race in a series.
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Paramedic ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 27 Jan 06 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 929 |
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furtive ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 30 Mar 05 Online Status: Offline Posts: 188 |
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*sigh*
Protest=/=Appeal
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Sheetpuller ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 22 Feb 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 114 |
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A copy of my post on the Merlin forum:
I wasn't there, and my knowledge of the incident is limited to what I have read on this and another forum, but if what I understand is correct then I'm very pleased that Geoff is appealing because I think it sets an appalling precendent.
My understanding is that Geoff Carveth, along with others, was black-flagged on the start line. Whilst other boats returned to shore, the showers and the bar, Geoff sailed the race, finished in 3rd place and then protested the black flag. After consideration, the protest committee upheld his appeal and awarded him average points. If that understanding is correct, then the protest committee is wrong. Average points is all they could have awarded had Geoff returned to shore with the other competitors because they would have no way of knowing how he would have fared in the race. But as he sailed the race, there are only two possible outcomes: 1) The black flag was correctly applied to his boat, he was disqualified from racing and his third place is null and void. 2) The black flag was incorrectly applied to his boat, he was therefore racing legally and entitled to his third place. In upholding his protest the protest committee have opted for 2) and the only option should be to reinstate him in his proper finishing place. To apply 'average points' in such a situation is to try to create a middle ground where there patently is none. In my opnion this makes a mockery of the rules and creates a very dangerous precedent which would have ramifications far beyond this particular incident. |
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I'm not arguing. I'm explaining why I'm right.
Merlin Rocket 3545 - 'Smooth Operator' Sprint 15 1342 - 'Still Crazy' |
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Dougal ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 23 Sep 09 Location: England Online Status: Offline Posts: 556 |
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The appeal must have been registered a while back as Andy Rice was discussing it in his Y&Y column a couple of issues back. Whilst everyone likes to see events decided quickly, it is good that sailing does have this redress procedure so a precedent can be set should this situation occur again. To me it seems obvious that his result in the race in question should have been reinstated, but assuming he has appealed to the RYA, we will now get to see what the correct interpretation of the rules is (and then can start a thread on why the rules are wrong....) BTW I think your comment about not volunteering is perhaps a bit of an over reaction - firstly HISC may have got it right, and secondly if we all gave up at the first sign of controversy then we wouldn't have a sport. Edited by Dougal - 09 Nov 11 at 10:13am |
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Sheetpuller ![]() Posting king ![]() Joined: 22 Feb 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 114 |
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Damn right! And if there was no controversy we wouldn't need this forum either....
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I'm not arguing. I'm explaining why I'm right.
Merlin Rocket 3545 - 'Smooth Operator' Sprint 15 1342 - 'Still Crazy' |
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ex laser ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 25 Mar 09 Online Status: Offline Posts: 725 |
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very true!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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I hope that the RYA look at the bigger issue as well. Whilst in this case the RC had a choice of average points or restoring the finish place, in many circumstances they won't have that option.
Redress is only given, don't forget, in a situation when a boat is disadvantaged "through no fault of their own". What we have seen in this event is that a boat which has been given average points is at a serious tactical disadvantage since they score bad points in two races if they are sailed down the fleet or wish to sail someone else down the fleet whereas the other boat only gets one bad score, which discards can deal with. So average points of all races now looks very problematic, and it seems to me highly desirable that RYA, maybe later on ISAF, look further than this single incident and at the general problem it has highlighted. Edited by JimC - 09 Nov 11 at 3:00pm |
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