Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Free mast for Merlin Rocket - has a bend! Guildford |
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Bruce Roberts classic 45 Valencia, Spain |
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
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Boards rarely have jibs. |
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I must admit I was suprised, when I looked from underneath, just how forward the board looks. However, it balances just fine, so must be in the right place. Bethwaite's first book explains that the wing mast needs the board further forward because of the better flow in the luff area. And of course, I have a jib. |
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G.R.F. ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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Bethwaite Bethwaite Bethwaite...
Doesn't anyone think for themselves, the guy's an idiot. Isn't he the one responsible for 49ers? and the rest of the skiff dross that even the worlds elite can't sail beyond 20 kts and a four foot chop (As found in Sydney Harbour). |
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G.R.F. ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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Irrelevant. Move the whole lot back, as long as the collective centre of effort matches the centre of lateral resistance..... Edited by G.R.F. |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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But then the rudder is closer to the centreboard, which isn't fast, hence some classes resorting to gantrys. Is it just possible that dinghies and boards work rather differently, so comparing them every time a picture of a boat is put up is rather futile? After 120 or more years of development, dinghy designers know what they are doing, in the main. |
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Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Bethwaite didn't design the boat in the picture - he hasn't designed an NS14 for over 30 years. A modern NS14 hull is much more slippery than, say a 505, RS200 or Tasar. Over 2,000 NS14s have been built, to dozens of different designs, so they should have the board in the right place by now! There is something aesthetically pleasing about having the rig a long way aft, much like a long bonnet on a car, but I'm not sure that there is any performance benefit, and it makes the cockpit smaller. |
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Chris 249 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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But is there a "product life cycle" in racing dinghies? Maybe dinghies are one of the (many???) exceptions to the idea of a life cycle? The oldest dinghy One Designs ever created in the world are still racing, almost 120 years after they were created. The oldest International development dinghy class ever created is still racing, about 125 years after it had its first international contest . The oldest International one design dinghy class ever created attracts hundreds of competitors, over 90 years after it was designed. The most popular dinghy classes are 60 and 40 years old. When just about all of the original classes from the dawn of the sport still exist, and the most popular classes of all are so old, maybe the truth is that dinghy sailing doesn't follow the "rules"? And while mountain biking is strong, is that because it's a fairly new adrenalin sport or because you can get into it cheaply and do some singletrack cruising? Are the couch potatoes really going to go from sitting on the coach, to hitting the piss on a skiff type? Are they actually physically adventurous? Arguably they may be LESS physically adventurous than earlier generations and therefore more easily scared off sports. Are kite numbers all that strong, and how many kiters got into it from windsurfing when that sport chased the "new is always better" mindset and became such a shadow of its former self? |
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G.R.F. ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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Design should always be for the better.
With what is known about sail, hulls and performance it should be possible to make stuff that even idiots can use and go really fast in. Bringing the power (that's the sailey bit) back reduces the wetted area as the hull lifts onto the plane, the reason those silly foil things go fast up to a point is simply because they remove ALL the wetted planing area. They then run into greater friction because they are submersed, which I guess is what the Guy from Weymouth is trying for by developing a planing foil. But for the real world unless they can be made to retractinto the hull for launch/recovery they're not on for a while yet. Taking that Blaze again because it's a known boat shaped device. If that had it's centreboard enlarged and moved aft, along with the mast, hang the boom and rudder over the back if necessary, that would be faster, its got a rocker that would react to it well and a bigger plate would sort the windward issues and as for the old potatoe about waterline length up wind, there's always you, you're portable, move forward a bit in the light stuff. |
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Chris 249 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 10 May 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 2041 |
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Grumpf;
As Peaky says, the NS is a very slippery hull and it's got little or no Bethwaite influence. And the Northies/Tasar etc balance very well. As Rupert mentions, boards and boats can be different; the way boards balance (especially with raked rigs, which alters the picture) doesn't come into it. If you took pumping out of the equation the NS would arguably be quicker than a Raceboard. And has board racing become much more popular since boards started moving the centreboard back? Maybe that restricts tacking speed, which may (arguably) reduce the importance of tactics, and therefore makes racing less interesting for many people? |
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G.R.F. ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 10 Aug 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 4028 |
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That dinghy just made the illustration.
Imho boats with the mast to forward are rangeless, impractical. Let me use this shot of my boat. ![]() There's a good chunk of boat ahead of the mast, and the CB case is amidships, it is the singularly most 'balanced' feel of anything I've ever sailed, not that that list is particularly long, but includes:- RS200,400,500,800,Iso, MPS, 470, L3000, various Hobie things, Lasers Toppers etc. Because there is ample boat back and front of the power source. Which means it can be used from 0 -30 knots with ease in seas ranging from mirror to Mast High.. Because it's designed correctly in the first place. Something lacking in your neck of the woods. Edited by G.R.F. |
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