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gordon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 26 Sep 11 at 6:08pm |
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Scooby Simon- the days are long gone when a collision was needed to prove that a rule had been broken. Once A passed beyong head to wind she was required to sail in such a way that R had noneed to take avoiding action. Once R needed to take avoiding action A had broken rule 13.
Once A had reached a close hauled course she became ROW boat and was required to give R the space needed, in the existing conditions, to manoeuvre promptly in a seamanlike way so that A would not need to take avoiding action. At that moment (not before) A did not meet this requirement. A broke rule 15. In both these instances A is DSQ, even if there was no contact. If you want a simple guideline - if you oblige another boat to do an emergency manouevre to avoid you, you have almost certainly broken a rule. The only debate is whether R could have done more to to avoid a collision. Having initially borne away when A broke rule 13, it is questionable whether any seamanlike manoeuvre could have avoided contact when A broke rule 15. Gordon |
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Gordon
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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According to the beginning of this thread, R had started avoiding action before A had completed her tack, so whether the bearaway was crap or not, A had tacked too close.
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Scooby_simon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415 |
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Why? they have completed their tack; are now on Stbd and thus R needs to avoid the Stbd boat; once A has completed her tack, R becomes burdended...... |
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Rupert ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
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If you tack onto starboard right in front of someone, then surely the onus is on you to ensure there is no collision? The boat behind doesn't know you are going to tack, and even if you tell them, they don't have to start avoiding you till the tack is completed. That is all pretty straight forward. I'm pretty sure thinking time is allowed for in all this, which, at the speed these boats are going at, is rather further than it is in my Lightning.
As far as I can see, if you tacked so close that a rushed crap bearaway is enough to make the difference between colliding and not, then you've tacked too close.
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I luv Wight ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Jan 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 628 |
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But A would still get a penalty / DSQ for tacking too close. |
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Scooby_simon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415 |
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But IF R in this case had taken avoiding action correctly (and thus no collision) then A would not hve been DSQ. So; to take this further with with some examples..... 1, A tacks and sails away; R does not change heading; we KNOW nowt here. 2, A tacks, is sailing on correct heading(completed tack), R takes NO avoiding action once A ROW boat; collision, R DSQ. 3, A tacks, R collides; nowhere for R to go; A DSQ. My assumption is NOW that as A you cannot assume that R will take APPROPIATE action, and thus you cannot tack on the same "lane" as a following boat as you cannot assume they will take any avoiding action........ True????
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JimC ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6661 |
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The tacking boat has to assume that if they break a rule the right of way boat may not succeed in taking sufficient avoiding action in time to avoid a collision. Edited by JimC - 26 Sep 11 at 3:48pm |
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ob1 ![]() Groupie ![]() Joined: 21 Feb 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 72 |
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Simon, I hear your question (and your pain) which I will leave to others to answer But it can't be a sensible requirement of the rules to have to even begin to guess what boats might do if we assume they will not take appropiate action. e.g., (and just to illustrate the argument) would we have to assume and allow for the option of deliberate ramming?
Edited by ob1 - 26 Sep 11 at 3:27pm |
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Scooby_simon ![]() Really should get out more ![]() Joined: 02 Apr 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 2415 |
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My question is should boats EXPECT other boats to take APPROPIATE action. I still hold that if R had taken the appropiate action this collision would not have happened.... Does the tacking boat have to assume that the other boat(s) will NOT take appropite action.
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I luv Wight ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 28 Jan 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 628 |
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But lessons were learned... later on in the week, the exact same positioning occurred, but the boat ahead and slightly to leeward waited to tack until the other boat had tacked on the layline ( and 'lost' a place. )
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