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RS400atC View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 12:21pm
Can someone give us an idiot's guide to the advantages of 'square top' mains?
Presumably they have a performance advantage, for a given sail area,, but is that independent of how you measure it? (not like a Merlin, where roach is pretty much free in the sail area formula).
Presuambly development other classes have them because they are faster, within their development rules?
Is it all around the course or just upwind?
 
I think my textbooks may be a tad dated, lots of stuff about the effiiciency of elliptical planforms &c.
If anyone can direct me to up to date sources, I'd be grateful.
Cheers.
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

Can someone give us an idiot's guide to the advantages of 'square top' mains?


I suspect what I'm about to write is equally valid for dinghies, but square tops afford the benefit of extra sail area on a restricted length mast, and designed with a progressive degree of negative luff, they generate a 'fair' twist starting at the head, rather than twist from the middle that pin head sails suffer from.
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Posts: 853 		Post Options Post Options   Quote hollandsd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 12:39pm
I also saw the protype over the weekend and spoke toone of the guys sailing it.

His comments were that the boat was definitely faster and felt more like sailing a "Skiff" as the boat properly got up onto the plane rather than simply plowing through.

He seemed to be really posititve about the new design.

Dan
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Posts: 669 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ifoxwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 2:43pm
From my sailing, but not scientific experience, the square top lets you put some gust response into the sail/batten combination rather than just relying on the mast to do all this for you.

The decision over the final 100 sail design would have been clouded by the limited righting moment available from a single handed hiking boat and the fact that a square top sail puts the extra area up high were it hurts most. 

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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Posts: 962 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 3:06pm
Other than the deck/thwart moulding changes I'm guessing the rest of the changes are retro-fittable? If so then it gives a fairly good upgrade path so keeping older boats racing (and generating some additional sales for LDC) rather than splitting the fleet like a weight reduction would. I'd vote for all these changes (if I'd paid my subs Wink).
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 3:22pm
Originally posted by Matt Jackson

Other than the deck/thwart moulding changes I'm guessing the rest of the changes are retro-fittable? If so then it gives a fairly good upgrade path so keeping older boats racing (and generating some additional sales for LDC) rather than splitting the fleet like a weight reduction would. I'd vote for all these changes (if I'd paid my subs Wink).
But if you won't pay £39 for your subs, are you about to buy a new main,  jib, boom, bowsprit and mast ram?
There do seem to be a lot of RS400 owners who spend plenty on their boats but don't join the CA, so maybe you would? Or would it make people think there was no point going to an open meeting with an old style main and alloy spars? At the moment you can join the CA for a weekend for £10, this is excellent value and lets club sailors see what they are missing in open meeting fleets.
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Posts: 3169 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Merlinboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 3:29pm
its now £40.37 LOL  I always thought was great value in a 200, not so in the smaller classes.  If i remember correctly there was a pretty poor take up in class membership vs. boats sold.  Why dont they offer a club memebership where you get the benefits but pay more if you go to an open???
 
But hey i have had this arguement and it resulted in me selling my boat so i am not going back into it.  If the parts can be retro fitted and the older boats are somewhere near competitive i think it can only be a good thing!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 3:29pm
New main, jib, carbon boom, bowsprit, kite system and mast ram.  What's that, £1500?  
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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Posts: 962 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 3:32pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

Originally posted by Matt Jackson

Other than the deck/thwart moulding changes I'm guessing the rest of the changes are retro-fittable? If so then it gives a fairly good upgrade path so keeping older boats racing (and generating some additional sales for LDC) rather than splitting the fleet like a weight reduction would. I'd vote for all these changes (if I'd paid my subs Wink).
But if you won't pay £39 for your subs, are you about to buy a new main,  jib, boom, bowsprit and mast ram?
There do seem to be a lot of RS400 owners who spend plenty on their boats but don't join the CA, so maybe you would? Or would it make people think there was no point going to an open meeting with an old style main and alloy spars? At the moment you can join the CA for a weekend for £10, this is excellent value and lets club sailors see what they are missing in open meeting fleets.
I really didn't intend (re)starting an argument about joining a CA (some people are still kinda touchy about this subject eh?). 
 
I have however spent almost as much on new sails/spares as the boat itself so think I would do a planned upgrade. My perception is that I would gain more from the kit (even if it were purely pschological) than the association.


Edited by Matt Jackson - 08 Dec 10 at 12:56pm
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Matt Jackson View Drop Down
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Posts: 962 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Matt Jackson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Oct 10 at 3:40pm
Originally posted by Peaky

New main, jib, carbon boom, bowsprit, kite system and mast ram.  What's that, £1500?  
... and the rest! But actually the sails are a consumable and will need replacing at some point anyway so you can remove them from that sum. Obviously you'd need to be barking to lay that out in one go on an old boat but over time it's justifiable. What else am I going to spend my pocket money on?
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