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Kids in sailing

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Alex C View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Alex C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Kids in sailing
    Posted: 01 Aug 08 at 9:00pm

The 29er kids usually have pretty well off parents, I don’t really see them as the type to be loitering in bus stops in all honesty.

I think a key issue in keeping teenagers and upwards in sailing is the cost. Buying a 29er at 3k+ is a serious investment, and non-sailor parents may find this a little excessive. So this keeps the squads quite insular and limits those who benefit from it. I think by adopting a more flexible multi-class approach, which could involve working with suitable class associations then the RYA would benefit from a wider pool of talent, and a higher retention rate whilst shedding the elitist image of the sport. I think the NSSA do an excellent job in making sailing more accessible for the majority, and that the RYA should really take on a similar all-inclusive approach.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tessa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 08 at 10:12pm

29er costs cover two sailors so you can share costs. That helps.

I've done my fair share of rescuing old wrecks from the boat park, painting them in the back garden and taking them to the national champs, only to come very nearly last but having a v. good time doing it. Had some good racing with the boats around us.

I think non-sailing parents have a mountain to climb, whichever way you look at it, especially once the kids have a boat to maintain, whether it's wooden or something else.

And whilst I agree that cost is a key issue, there are advantages to getting kids into a fleet of similar boats, I mean not handicap and not menagerie. I think class racing is more exciting than handicap. Even if you're not into racing, then perhaps sailing in a fleet is more sociable. It's easier to maintain a fleet of similar boats. And if you do all decide to go to an open meeting or a championship week or a regatta week then your group will all be on the same start line, same place, same time. Hence fun.

So I think maybe it all comes down to the boats and who owns them and who looks after them.

Have fun

Tessa

 

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 08 at 10:50pm
There's plenty of pushy parents in football and look where that's got us!!
My dad took me to all the open meetings and training events and not
once was he pushy. All I got was support and encouragement and I'm
greatfull for that and i'll never give up competitive racing.
It's merely nothing more than mood association, if all a child feels is
pressure when he's sailing, that's the emotion that will come to mind
whenever he/she thinks about sailing any other time of day.
Although In all my time in sailing I've only ever noticed one pushy muppet
of a parent that was having a go at his kid for not doing the right thing
on the water. I certainly don't think it's as present in sailing as it is in
other sports.

What drives kids to end up on drunk on street corners?? Weakness of
mind! Weak minded people unable to think for themselves because they
lack the proper social programming.

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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Aug 08 at 11:21pm
Great posts!!!

One thing that frustrates me about the hot-housing/competition for kids
thing is that there's any studies showing that kids don't do sport to win -
they just want to have fun. So not only is the grass-roots experience (like
the stuff above proving that hot-housing is wrong in terms of creatinbg
more kid sailors, but so is the techno/sports science stuff.

We've had problems with kids being selected for squads - it takes them out
of the club so that it becomes much harder to get critical mass for the other
kids to enjoy, and the squaddies lose the social side so they often drop out
too.
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tmoore View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 08 at 2:10pm

possibly your looking at this the wrong way....

i started sailing at 15 in school, loved it so joined a club and bought my first laser a year later. that winter i went to reginal training at plas menai. the weekends i spent there have made me friends i still see and chat to (3years later and in diffrent classes) and the group of us has a great time. that was not expensive or elitist in the slightest at about £90 for 8 full weekends of training at plas menai and the option of using a centre boat if you wished (for free).

not only did we all have amazing good fun but we all came out much better sailors with places going for welsh squadies (my friend got in but i was too old and so was rejected - nothing to do with skill)

are you really going to tell me that offering cheap training with a group of like minded, similar aged youths and geat fun is bad for the sport? i think not.

what you seem to be missing is that sport parcipitation between the ages of 16 and about 20 or so is extremely low. for a few reasons (exams/ work/ drinking and parties etc)

as for squads taking youths out of clubs, well surely thats better than alchohol doing the same thing? bearing in mind most of the training etc is done over the winter months when sailing is less regular anyway its not a problem. the events side of things is also fun - competition with other kids to relax with afterwards.....

i know im going to get flamed for this but try and look at it from their point of view!



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Alex C View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Alex C Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 08 at 2:45pm
Originally posted by tmoore


are you really going to tell me that offering cheap training with a group of like minded, similar aged youths and geat fun is bad for the sport? i think not.



That was my point with the NSSA, and why the RYA should follow a similar model.

Originally posted by tmoore

what you seem to be missing is that sport parcipitation between the ages of 16 and about 20 or so is extremely low. for a few reasons (exams/ work/ drinking and parties etc)


I’m struggling to see the link here. Ok given exams may take a couple of months out of sailing, but drinking and parties?? As far as I know most parties go on at night, and sailing during the day. I managed to sail pretty regularly until about 22 and never felt my social life was compromised. Besides there’s nothing better than going sailing to cure a hangover. Girlfriends of course are a different matter ;-).

So this leads me to believe the two main issues are accessibility and cost.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote ratface Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Aug 08 at 3:54pm
at our club we have a 'youth committee'(made up of under 18's), to organize events/things to do for the youth at our club, Most of which we have had as a success and have kept most interested in sailing, as well as making money for the club to buy new updated kit for the kids to then use

Also my squad takes on people that hardly/never have raced before and aspire to be as good as the top guys in the squad,(seeing us sailing silly boats like 4000's/i14),
what has also been discovered is if they see we older 'youf' are having a great time sailing they also seem to enjoy it more, so it is not just down to the adults to keep young kids interested but the older teenagers aswell. Plus our club has the benefit of  most of us under 18's know each other in some way so whenever you go down you will know someone there.
and we also have a few kids that rarely go sailing but can be seen down at the club helping people, assisting the warden etc etc

and i've seen 1st hand what pushy parents can do to a 'sailing team', however i see nothing wrong with parents getting involved just only to a point, as my dad only helps me pack up boats and tows me around and leaves me to sailing how i want.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote tmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Aug 08 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by Alex C

Originally posted by tmoore


are you really going to tell me that offering cheap training with a group of like minded, similar aged youths and geat fun is bad for the sport? i think not.



That was my point with the NSSA, and why the RYA should follow a similar model.

Originally posted by tmoore

what you seem to be missing is that sport parcipitation between the ages of 16 and about 20 or so is extremely low. for a few reasons (exams/ work/ drinking and parties etc)


I’m struggling to see the link here. Ok given exams may take a couple of months out of sailing, but drinking and parties?? As far as I know most parties go on at night, and sailing during the day. I managed to sail pretty regularly until about 22 and never felt my social life was compromised. Besides there’s nothing better than going sailing to cure a hangover. Girlfriends of course are a different matter ;-).

So this leads me to believe the two main issues are accessibility and cost.


i know what you mean as sailing hasnt stopped my social life either. however we are/werent not the average 'youf' are we? as for girlfriends, well they present an altogether different distraction. basically youths find drinking, driving and seeing their friends more fun than sailing. why is this? well i think its because there are not enough 'fun' boats sailed in the RYA system. the cats are basically dead leaving 420 (not good unless its breezy) or 29ers (some simply arent comitted enough/ cant find a crew etc).

but yes, cost has a huge impact and often requires input from parents. given £4k what percentage of youths would buy a boat over a car? very few (my friends couldnt understand why i bought my boat and waited to save up for my car.....

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 08 at 11:19am
But if most people really wanted "fun boats" like fast ones, why are the cats
almost dead, why is the 420 so popular, and why is the Laser the most
popular of all for older teens?

If most teens really wanted to sail "fun boats" surely they would have
dumped the slower boats and moved to the squad cats, boards and skiff
types in overwhelming numbers. They haven't, so how can we see that as
anything but evidence that most aren't into speed all that much?

And it can't just be because of the RYA system, because the same thing
happens in places like the USA and Australia where the RYA system doesn't
apply.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Tessa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Aug 08 at 12:15pm

So we are back to boats again!  I think it's a mixture of things for each class of boat. For example:

Perhaps some boats have a wider choice of suitable sailing venues - a cat on a pond?

Maybe some boats benefit from being selected by ISAF (not just the RYA) for youth competitions.

Surely some boats benefit from having been established as racing class for a long time, so that it's eay to find the back up network of chandlers supplying spares and there may be more sailing instructors and coaches who do actually know something about the class of boat, rather than sailing in general.

On the cost side, perhaps it's not not just the initial cost. Suppose you bite the bullet and buy a boat - then's the surprise factor of sunddenly having to replace an expensively broken mast or foil or sail. People on tight budgets cannot cope easily with uncertainities. Sometimes there are pleasant surprises like grants available. And the final surprise - or not - might be the resale value of your well sailed boat a few years down the line. Take a look and see whether old boats still win prizes or do they fail to perform as they age?

Then there's the social side of each class or club - as mentioned earlier in this thread, that's probably a big factor  ...

Tessa

 

 

 

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