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yet another what boat...

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Rob.e View Drop Down
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    Posted: 17 Feb 07 at 9:02pm

The 200 is a new 12, same designer as my 1970's 12 and everything! Look at the class websites, decide what sort of sailing (assy blasting,or really close tactcal stuff) and what sort of crew you have/want, and what is sailed near you, or would suit your ability to travel, and then decide what you can afford: a 200 can cost a lot more, but may cost less in terms of depreciation as it is a desirable after one design. The 420 is a great youth boat, but this is partly because it is undercanvassed, and hence not good in light winds ( i.e. typical small pond conditions). An older 12 could be superb on restricted waters, but you really need other 12's to tune against, because they are hard to get the best out of.

It isn't an easy question to answer without knowing where you sail and what you sail against; If I could give one piece of advice to aspiring sailors, it would be: sail in a one design fleet!!! You can't beat sailing against other similar boats- the Solo I sail is very simple, yet 1/4 inch on the shrouds can be the difference between competing or not, and even when you've got the boat speed right, you still have to get the start right, and then the first beat, and then all your mark roundings, and then not get stuffed by the flying fifteens ( not that this has ever been an issue for me ) and then you only win with a bit of luck if the fleet is very good enough!

Any help?

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Prince Buster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 07 at 9:20pm
I think you'll find a 200 more rewarding and fun.  A nat12 can be awesome if it's modern and expensive but they can be very tricky to sail - especially to sail well and compete.  The youth sailing and national circuit for the 200s is massive and unbeatable for fun and partying.  A bad 12 will be dirt cheap, a good 12 will be really expensive but a 200 is a 200 and they're all really between 3500 and 5500.  The difference is, as Rob.E says, that the 200 will hold its value really well and if you want to move on to something else after a year or so you could still sell it for good money. 
Don't go for a 420, out of date, dying breed and all that!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote HannahJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 07 at 9:21pm
Thanks; I sail on the welsh harp (110 acres i think) where my club sails predominantly GP14s, but the club next door has some RS200s and merlins and things.  It's all class racing but GPs are a little big/heavy/slow for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Fans1024 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 07 at 9:33pm
Hannah - a few years ago I was in your position.  Mirror great in a gale, but so boring overwise.  I started in my 200 with my brother with an all up weight of about 14/15 stone - it was very interesting.  Anyway, the 200 is a lovely boat.  So responsive, all the controls in the right place and if you not to bothered about it having a twin patch kite, you can get it for less.  We sold ours for under 3k and it was in really good nick.  There is a great circuit and a good youth following.
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Rob.e View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rob.e Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 07 at 9:51pm
Yup, as PB says, what I was trying to put across is that the 12 is one of the best boats I have ever sailed, but is not a one design fleet, so if you don't have other 12's to sail against, the 200 is very similar in many respects, but is also; modern, popular, easy to buy/sell (while keeping it's value), and just a very good boat, with the added value of the RS name/circuit, etc. Potentially, the 470 could get de-selected as an olympic boat, which could leave the 420 nowhere. That would kill their value, but conversley make them a good value buy. The problem then might be that they were not that good a boat in the first place...up to you
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HannahJ View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote HannahJ Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 07 at 9:55pm
Twin patch kite?
MIRROR 64799 "Dolphin"
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Villan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Feb 07 at 9:58pm
Some boats have 2-patches on the spinaker, meaning that it folds in on itself in the drop - meaning you dont have as much to pull in.

With one patch, you are pulling in a lot more, and as such it comes out the back of the bag ... and you have to stuff it all back in afterwards.
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Pabs View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Pabs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Feb 07 at 11:59pm
The biggest problem you have as a gp club you may be forced to sail GP
courses ie not so good for a assy boat. no suggestions other then dump
your crew and get a 300. i had the same dilema at my club my only other
suggestion would be to try a taser great little boat and ideal for small ponds
along with the 12
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Post Options Post Options   Quote andymck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 07 at 12:14am

From what I remember from my uni days at the Harp you have to fit in with the classes already present, as they wont let you on the water otherwise. A problem I had with my N12 when i was there. There are two calsses they do allow that have fantastic circuits, with lots of younger sailors around. The first is the much vaunted RS200, as described ably above, and if you have the green stuff to get one, then why not, they are fun, require good skills to make them go fast.

The other boat the Harp allows that has one of the best circuits in the country is the Firefly. And is an option for the budget sailor. Not as exciting to sail, granted, unless you get in a big fleet, where even the rockstars dont go any faster, so its all down to taticks, and there are lots of rockstars who just keep their freddies for team racing and the odd champs. Also if you are thinking of going to uni, most of the sailing wil be in freddies, as you will have noticed from the club nearest the gate, so why not get a jump on the competition. Exp price 200-2500GBP

I love all the boats mentioned for different reasons, Hope to get back into 12's (diet) or RS200's (if enough numbers) soon, but would depend on what takes off at local club, but as soon as i have a big enough garage there will always be room for a freddy in it. Even if only used once or twice a year.

Hope this helps

Andy

 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote iwsmithuk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Feb 07 at 10:27am

I haven't sailed at Wembley for a couple of years but it is as Andymck says they do only permit certain classes. Wembley SC has a good RS200 fleet, some good sailors and pretty good turnouts. If you're a member of one of the other Welsh Harp clubs I think they do a sort of associate member sheme so you can sail with the Wembley fleet on Sunday mornings.

They're a friendly bunch, turn up on a Sunday morning and introduce yourself, I'm sure they'd be happy to help.

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