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Something So Right

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eric_c View Drop Down
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    Posted: 18 Sep 23 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by JimC

The other side of the coin is that if you only have championships at a handful of clubs in the south then you'll most probably end up as a regional class, not a national one.

Some South West clubs seem very popular with sailors from the Midlands Region.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 23 at 3:22pm
Originally posted by Paramedic

Is championship attendance still a fair assessment of the health of a class?

The trouble is these days is if you have aspirations of being in the "over 50 club" in terms of attendance there are actually surprisingly few clubs or facilities that are capable or willing to run an event of that size that will attract enough boats.

Facility based venues such as Portland or Plas Heli will attract the entire front of the fleet and you may get visitors from the front of other fleets borrowing boats. However further down the fleet you get whispers of the venue being "soulless" or "theres nothing to do" and before you know it the back 25 boats have talked themselves out of going and you are back to 40 boats. The fact that they are missing out on potentially the best sailing and racing they'll ever do doesn't enter the equation.

So to pacify the back of the fleet you make use of smaller clubs at sleepy seaside towns. Most of these clubs have a membership of less than 150 and their entire club puts their weight behind running your event (They really do want you there). To obtain the same level of race management as the "facility" venues is difficult due to manpower, equipment and sometimes location restrictions. Quite understandably the club volunteer force like to work with people they know and bringing in a race officer is not always welcomed (Though many small clubs have excellent in house ROs and some small clubs are very open to external help).

Personally if we are prepared to accept that the race management and event communication *may* only be 95% as good as facility but with the club putting 200% effort into it I think that has to be the way to go.

But I think there are less than 10 clubs that tick the boxes to deal with a fleet of 50+ that tick the boxes to bring the back of the fleet to the event - and that really is the key to numbers. And none of those less than 10 clubs is a perfect venue - there truly isn't one!

The perfect venue would have plenty of rental accommodation so you don't have to drive during the week, sensible launching from a sheltered beach or similar, proper open sailing water with proper waves, but maybe enough slightly sheltered water in a bay to keep racing if it gets a bit fresh. Without sailing for an hour to and from the start line.
So that's Penzance, Mount's Bay (give or take the beach), Looe, Lyme, Weymouth (SC)..... I'm sure there are quite a few others I've not done a nationals at. There are some clubs which would tick all the boxes but AFAIK don't run Nationals, like Worthing and Christchurch.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 23 at 3:56pm
I'd add Torbay, of the three Blaze Nationals I've done all the host clubs did a great job but the race area at the 2021 Nats (hosted by Paignton S C) was simply brilliant. 

Edited by Sam.Spoons - 18 Sep 23 at 3:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 23 at 8:19pm
Originally posted by eric_c

not up North for political correctness reasons,

Absolutely **** all to do with political correctness. If you never stray from the arc stretching from say Hayling to Pwllheli then mid to tail end of fleet sailors from about three quarters of Great Britain aren't going to turn up, and potentially serious sailors in that area bye and large aren't going to be interested in a class that never has a championship within reach. And while there are more active sailors down south, it means that you've about halved the potential catchment for your class. So if you're serious about being a UK wide class, not just a southern clique, then you do need to spread the championships round the country, not just go to Weymouth every year.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dakota Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Sep 23 at 9:46pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by eric_c

not up North for political correctness reasons,

Absolutely **** all to do with political correctness. If you never stray from the arc stretching from say Hayling to Pwllheli then mid to tail end of fleet sailors from about three quarters of Great Britain aren't going to turn up, and potentially serious sailors in that area bye and large aren't going to be interested in a class that never has a championship within reach. And while there are more active sailors down south, it means that you've about halved the potential catchment for your class. So if you're serious about being a UK wide class, not just a southern clique, then you do need to spread the championships round the country, not just go to Weymouth every year.

Spot on  Smile
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Paramedic View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 23 at 7:20am
Originally posted by eric_c

The perfect venue would have plenty of rental accommodation so you don't have to drive during the week, sensible launching from a sheltered beach or similar, proper open sailing water with proper waves, but maybe enough slightly sheltered water in a bay to keep racing if it gets a bit fresh. Without sailing for an hour to and from the start line.
So that's Penzance, Mount's Bay (give or take the beach), Looe, Lyme, Weymouth (SC)..... I'm sure there are quite a few others I've not done a nationals at. There are some clubs which would tick all the boxes but AFAIK don't run Nationals, like Worthing and Christchurch.

You name me *any* venue and I'll find something wrong with it  LOL - this is off the back of 6-7 year of being involved with organising champs. Organise a champs in heaven and someone won't want to go for a valid reason.

Going north is nothing to do with political correctness, and everything to do with - in most cases forlornly - trying to involve the other end of the country and there are some excellent venues up there. East Lothian have a good record of hosting big championships, Largs is the equivalent of Portland, Hartlepool have recently done some good champs in "lesser classes", Tynemouth have the Albs next year and Filey have hosted the 200s with success. Slightly further south and Abersoch and Pwllheli cater for two very different approaches to your event.

The trouble with all of these its is a trek for the southerners, and the latter two in particular as its Birmingham and turn left. But the M4 isn't a one way valve and those of us north of it have to cross it far more often than the southerners have to. As I said the number of clubs capable of hosting a 50 boat champs that people want to go to is less than 10. In that list are two facilities (Which I don't count as they aren't universally popular) and three clubs that have do so in the last 5 years.


Edited by Paramedic - 19 Sep 23 at 7:22am
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Post Options Post Options   Quote IanW Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 23 at 1:03pm
The challenge for some of the smaller clubs on that list is finding enough volunteers to run these events.  The last championship we ran used over 80 individuals and with an aging club demographic we have made the decision to have a fallow year in 2024 so people can recover. As these members age the pool of fit volunteers decreases and the viability of running large championships decreases.  For members of working age taking a weeks holiday to sit on a rib / committee boat is also a big ask. 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Sep 23 at 6:07pm
^^absolutely^^
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Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 23 at 6:45pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by eric_c

not up North for political correctness reasons,

Absolutely **** all to do with political correctness. If you never stray from the arc stretching from say Hayling to Pwllheli then mid to tail end of fleet sailors from about three quarters of Great Britain aren't going to turn up, and potentially serious sailors in that area bye and large aren't going to be interested in a class that never has a championship within reach. And while there are more active sailors down south, it means that you've about halved the potential catchment for your class. So if you're serious about being a UK wide class, not just a southern clique, then you do need to spread the championships round the country, not just go to Weymouth every year.


The trouble is, many people are not dyed in the wool class loyalists any more. You offer a champs in Prestwick, someone else is putting Garda on the menu. If you look at who goes to events, there are a lot of people from North of Gloucester who seem to prefer to go South than North. If you live in Stoke, which is easier to sell to the family as a week away, Cornwall or Lancashire?
Distance doesn't matter much for a week long event, but it does for a long weekend
 I think the classes which are really healthy not only have a decent Nationals turnout, but also have people travelling from club to club for Opens and regattas through the year? And a lot of that seems to be strong in the Midlands. The old classes which endure tend to have full calendars of 'local' opens at least? And then we have international classes, with people crossing the channel in both directions. One or two classes will be considering attracting people from euroland more than Manchester. Maybe being a UK-wide class isn't top of everyone's agenda.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Sep 23 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by IanW

The challenge for some of the smaller clubs on that list is finding enough volunteers to run these events.  The last championship we ran used over 80 individuals and with an aging club demographic we have made the decision to have a fallow year in 2024 so people can recover. As these members age the pool of fit volunteers decreases and the viability of running large championships decreases.  For members of working age taking a weeks holiday to sit on a rib / committee boat is also a big ask. 

I agree. It's even more of a problem when you're looking for volunteers who can bring their own RIB or committee boat.
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