PY - BANDITS

Wayfarer was a bandit before the mark IV appeared and now is even more

Its favoured because the PY is for an average boat - in the days before the Mark IV a well set up woodie was way quicker than the 'average' spongy Mark II or III boats.

Most other racing classes vary less.

We used to struggle to beat these better wooden boats on the water in Larks or Scorpions.

Now its worse - the Mark IVs seem quicker again - especially to plane.

At their current handicap they are supposedly Laser/OK pace but there are hardly any conditions in which either of these boats can stay with a Mark IV

Because of the average boat system this may not change ant time soon

Originally posted by rich96 Wayfarer was a bandit before the mark IV appeared and now is even more Its favoured because the PY is for an average boat - in the days before the Mark IV a well set up woodie was way quicker than the 'average' spongy Mark II or III boats. Most other racing classes vary less. We used to struggle to beat these better wooden boats on the water in Larks or Scorpions. Now its worse - the Mark IVs seem quicker again - especially to plane. At their current handicap they are supposedly Laser/OK pace but there are hardly any conditions in which either of these boats can stay with a Mark IV Because of the average boat system this may not change ant time soon

Interesting you quote the Lark in your post - old Larks are far more floppy and have terrible rigs compared to more modern ones, yet it doesn't affect yardstick? Lots of boats are in this position. In the end it catches up - Phantom as a case in point!

If you want a measurement system, get together with the others who do and create one. Run it alongside PY, let sailors decide which they find more fair.

If you sail an old tub badly the py system won't help you - nor should it. I sail a 35 year old Europe that won't be as quick as a more recent example - plus I'm a bit rubbish and inconsistent. I race against a variety of  Solos, Lasers, Comets, Lightning 368 etc, I feel the py is about right for me - occasionally I beat some people, but the better helms are usually ahead. I have an incentive to improve both me and the boat, if I had a newer Europe perhaps I would be quicker. I have never sailed against another Europe. 

I would suggest that the 3/4 digit system implies a confidence in the accuracy in the system which is undeliverable.  It broadly gets sailors in an order that reflects their skills.  I have sailed in eight different classes for reasonable lengths of time at different clubs and events over forty five years and I have never had any real cause to complain, ok there might be the odd surprising result, often from a one trick pony class (420’s in a blow?), but over a series the cream usually rises to the top.  In any case at club level the PY can be tweaked if the venue favours a particular class.

So glad we can still have this in depth discussion of the py ( or as I call it , talking bo@@@@@s ) in this worrying time. EVEN THOUGHT THE YARDSTICKS ARE UNCHANGED LOL