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No race officer sailing

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ClubRacer View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ClubRacer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: No race officer sailing
    Posted: 21 Dec 20 at 12:22pm
Is it completely custom built or is everything off the shelf?
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Oli View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Oli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 20 at 3:05pm
apps like motion-x allow you to record your track and upload, or even broadcast where others can also broadcast to the same live feed.

Set the app on each device so they broadcast to the same frequencey and at same interval and then use that as your method of gatheirng results.  easy to see who is ocs and when they finish.  allowing for gps error ask the sailors if you have a close finish to confirm who they crossed with and where in relation to one another.  times ca be taken from there to give py results too.

obviously biggest hurdles are getting people to either set there new phone up to do this or invest in an older device and sim card, plus the waterproof case/bag for it.  i reckon iphone 5 would be a good setup with a cheap pay as you go sim for under £100 per boat.  next hurdle is for them to remember to do it.

i started doing this 10years ago at it was hard to convice people to risk their phone back then and still now its not easy, but its definatley getting into the realms of club racing use.

bonus of broadcast is can be watched by anyone with a link on a computer
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Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 20 at 3:19pm
You could start and finish at the jetty, everyone stand by their boats, synchronised watches, GO, untie boats, set off for start line, do the race, through finish, stop watches when you have tied up and on the bank.
Robert
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Simon Lovesey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Simon Lovesey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 20 at 3:28pm
Originally posted by ClubRacer

Is it completely custom built or is everything off the shelf?


Available off the shelf,  for a typical club application £50 per tracker,  PA

  • GPS tracker, 
  • Waterproof bag, 
  • NFC tag and electronic tally, 
  • SIM card and mobile data, 
  • Tracking platform,  including web and big screen views etc - live and replay,  leg by leg analytics, 
  • 10 port charging block 


Edited by Simon Lovesey - 21 Dec 20 at 3:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 20 at 4:54pm
No offence Simon and absolutely not trying to hijack.

I have https://raceqs.com on my phone purely for personal interest. It is free as I use it in my limited way and has many features I do not use which include "regatta" I freely admit to knowing nothing further but "just saying".

Edit. Apologies Oli, I didn't properly read your post, I guess we're on a similar track. 

 


Edited by Do Different - 21 Dec 20 at 5:11pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Bandin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 20 at 9:45pm
I was one of the beta testers for SAP Sailing Analytics which used mobile phones.

Whichever software you use (and I'd highly recommend you take a look at the free app Sailracer.net) there is work to do.  I'd say more work than with the old paper route but the playback has its advantages. So long as you have fixed buoys and only have to ping them the once, the workload can be reduced somewhat, but it's still a chore putting in the course and roundings etc then adding all the competitors. It's doable at club level but a ballache unless you have someone who loves the computer side of things but then you may as well just have an OD.

The logistical nightmare of getting everyone to turn up with the app running on their phone and the phone charged was another pita! We gave up and now just do pursuits when we have no OD which just need someone to buzz the start which at times will be one of the competitors.


Edited by Bandin - 21 Dec 20 at 9:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote polc1410 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 20 at 10:06pm
I've played with raceqs I thought it looked OK.

I have a "boat" phone that I bought for a bit of video when coaching juniors that also will do me a start sequence and run DSRC etc. Cost £80. Could have gone slightly older model for £70. Waterproof.

No need for a SIM if the club has WIFi, can sync when ashore..

To be fair - there is a massive difference between a SailJuice event and a club round the cans on a Wednesday night.

The problem I have is there could be 8 lasers out plus 3 randoms. The lasers are quite happy with their laser position (even though they big flappy thing changes size and they might want a handicap result on that) but if the none record a time, and nor does 1 of the others... The 2 remaining feel they didn't really race...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Dec 20 at 11:03pm
I have RaceQs and, while I like it a lot, it is not intuitive or easy to use. By far the simplest ways of running races without a RO are to adopt one of the two following approaches :- For one design/scratch races a gate start, the gate boat sets off from the designated start buoy on port (third position in the previous race or throw a dice or two). For handicap racing a pursuit with the fastest boat acting as start timer. No need for complicated and relatively unreliable GPS tracking systems* and everybody knows whether they were in front of or behind the nearest couple of boats.

* RaceQs would have had me missing at least two marks by a few metres in this Sunday's races so you need to reset your fixed mark positions on a race by race basis as in addition to the GPS accuracy the marks themselves move around by a few metres in different wind directions.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Simon Lovesey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 20 at 6:35am
Based on extensive experience of using mobile apps and dedicated GPS trackers there are a number of issues with using phones for tracking races,  some of these have been mentioned by others in this post :


  • Getting everyone to download,

  • App has to be installed,  some people will need help,

  • Compatibility issues across different phones,

  • Not everyone has a suitable phone,

  • Some not prepared to take their £1,000+ smart phone afloat,

  • Concerns over using mobile data allowance,

  • Massive difference in GPS accuracy across different phone types,

  • Battery life -  turn on GPS on your phone at best accuracy and location frequency and most phones will only last a few hours, 

  • People forget to turn the tracking app on when they go afloat,  
  •  
  • Not possible to control/configure the GPS app remotely (Most dedicated GPS trackers have a remote control option)


Yes an App may be free*,  but it brings a considerable amount of work to the event organiser and even then probably only 70% success across a fleet for above reasons.  


*The reality is nothing is free,  there are costs involved of running and developing the GPS platforms and servers, so like Strava there are probably will be subscription costs in the future.  


We have come to the conclusion mobile apps are good for the race management aspects required for tracking and occasional boat tracking,  but for serious racing a dedicated GPS tracker is the best way and @ £50 pa not an unreasonable cost,  particularly given all the viewing,  analytical and safety benefits GPS tracking brings,  plus ease of use for the organiser 





Edited by Simon Lovesey - 22 Dec 20 at 6:42am
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tink View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tink Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Dec 20 at 7:22am
Thanks for all the information everyone, have used a few apps on an old phone. Logistical as Simon says people using their phone is a non starter.

My question was more a curiosity as to whether the technology existed that for general racing other than setting a course the race officer duties could be eliminated - in a mixed fleet. The club buys the trackers and increases the club dues according. Not every member needs a tracker unless off course you sail at a club where there are no boats left in dinghy park on a Sunday morning 

For general racing it sounds that it would be feasible. Everyone gets more races per year. I’ve visited clubs and seen almost as many people running the race as actual sailing which is not healthy long term. 

Obviously each club will have its big races when they won’t have enough tackers and a race team would be required. 


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