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fab100 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 23 Oct 20 at 1:34pm
Originally posted by 423zero

The Laser class are seeking other builders, so hardly a platform purely for LPE.

If LP had paid the dues and behaved appropriately (letting in entitled WS inspectors, providing decent, consistent builds and QA, paying suppliers so that the official parts supply chain did not dry up being a few examples) we'd not have this mess. And strange that they can now sell boats at about half what they used to before they had $118 WS plaques taken away.

People and organisations that use and abuse positions of power then change their behaviour when they lose it or get called out will never get my respect (or my business if I can avoid it).
Great book for Club Sailors here
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 20 at 1:41pm
This from EurILCA
• Changes to the class insignia, the use of the word Laser, and wording changes from ISAF to World Sailing, are all what I term 'hygiene' changes, alterations of form rather than function. Nevertheless, the first two are important, for they are dependent on the ongoing dispute with LPE and its geographical ownership of the Laser trademark and symbol. We should be cautious: one doesn't know, LPE and 'The Laser Class' just might roll over and cease to be an issue at any time: it would be a sad state of affairs if we (as ILCA members) changed the Constitution only for the LPE/Laser issue to collapse, leaving us two years down the line constitutionally tied to calling our sailboat and our Association something other than 'Laser'. (1 sailor
Robert
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Late starter View Drop Down
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Posts: 481 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Late starter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 20 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by fab100

Even if Rastegar and his empire now paid over all the historical and current design dues he should have paid to Bruce Kirby over the years and any other creditors he may have shafted in his travels, I'd still not choose to buy anything from him. Far as I can tell, he has no interest in sailing, just in milking a cash-cow monopoly. Having (finally!) been called out, his rearguard action that is TheLaserClass should be strangled at birth, as far as I am concerned.

Professional football clubs have 'fit and proper person' tests for club owners. Happily, sailing is mostly not in that world, but if it was, would Rastegar pass? 
+1

Its worth googling McLaren buggy lawsuit for some background on the guy behind LPE. I'm old enough to recall an ex Fireball sailor who was UK Prime Minster between 1970-4 and coined the phrase "the unaccptable face of capitalism".   I think this applies here too.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 20 at 2:04pm
Slight mixing of issues here, TLC came into being to promote traditional Lasers, they want nothing to do with Composite mast tops and mk2 sails.
LPE are at the moment TLC builder.
Robert
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 20 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by 423zero

The Laser class are seeking other builders, so hardly a platform purely for LPE.

If LP had paid the dues and behaved appropriately (letting in entitled WS inspectors, providing decent, consistent builds and QA, paying suppliers so that the official parts supply chain did not dry up being a few examples) we'd not have this mess. And strange that they can now sell boats at about half what they used to before they had $118 WS plaques taken away.

People and organisations that use and abuse positions of power then change their behaviour when they lose it or get called out will never get my respect (or my business if I can avoid it).
Great book for Club Sailors here
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 20 at 2:44pm
Originally posted by Late starter

Originally posted by fab100

Even if Rastegar and his empire now paid over all the historical and current design dues he should have paid to Bruce Kirby over the years and any other creditors he may have shafted in his travels, I'd still not choose to buy anything from him. Far as I can tell, he has no interest in sailing, just in milking a cash-cow monopoly. Having (finally!) been called out, his rearguard action that is TheLaserClass should be strangled at birth, as far as I am concerned.

Professional football clubs have 'fit and proper person' tests for club owners. Happily, sailing is mostly not in that world, but if it was, would Rastegar pass? 
+1

Its worth googling McLaren buggy lawsuit for some background on the guy behind LPE. I'm old enough to recall an ex Fireball sailor who was UK Prime Minster between 1970-4 and coined the phrase "the unaccptable face of capitalism".   I think this applies here too.

Yes, I purposely left that additional fact out, trying to keep it about sailing and boats, but fair point
Great book for Club Sailors here
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fab100 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1005 		Post Options Post Options   Quote fab100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 20 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by 423zero

The Laser class are seeking other builders, so hardly a platform purely for LPE.

and can be judged by the company they keep?


They say “reconstitute the original Laser class” so will that be back to wooden tillers and 3:1 kickers then?
Great book for Club Sailors here
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 20 at 3:03pm
There’s no argument that Rastegar is not in it for the love of the game.  You might even call him unpleasant.  But that has no bearing on whether TLC has a right to existed whether Rastegar has the right to build boats. A lot of people seem to conflate whether they like someone with whether that person is breaking the law.  
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Late starter View Drop Down
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Posts: 481 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Late starter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 20 at 3:25pm
Originally posted by A2Z

There’s no argument that Rastegar is not in it for the love of the game.  You might even call him unpleasant.  But that has no bearing on whether TLC has a right to existed whether Rastegar has the right to build boats. A lot of people seem to conflate whether they like someone with whether that person is breaking the law.  
I think its more around if LPE and/or Rastegar are behind TLC in some shape or another. I have no knowledge of this, but what TLC are doing is classic confusion marketing and helps LPE so one has to wonder. 
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Oct 20 at 4:25pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Slight mixing of issues here, TLC came into being to promote traditional Lasers, they want nothing to do with... mk2 sails.
.

Someone should have told the person who slung their class rules together then. They most certainly include the mk 2 sail.
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