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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Bandit Watch!
    Posted: 02 Nov 18 at 12:57pm
It also depends on the weight of the helm, there's a Blaze guy at our club who'll beat the heavier Phantom guy in light winds, as there is also a light(er) Contender Helm who will dominate in light winds, then there's a tricky little ex windsurfing b**tard who'll do well in light winds whatever he sails.
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Posts: 596 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rich96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 18 at 1:14pm
If a Phantom is regularly beaten by a Blaze or Contender in the light he's not sailing as well as the other two

A contender is not much quicker than a Laser in the light

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Posts: 750 		Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 18 at 1:14pm
Our club does adjust some PYs to reflect the small lake but in my view it is impossible to beat a Solo or Europe in very light winds whereas as soon as I am on the side I can be at the front on handicap.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 18 at 1:28pm
My biggest issue is the 800 handicap. 799! I mean c'mon. It just tweaks my OCD. Couldn't they just give us one messily PY number so we don't have to scratch our eyes out every-time we read handicap results. 

Plot twist... the RS handicap is actually 800, but the PY committee thought no one would believe such a coincidence and it would undermine the credibility of the system... and they couldn't bring themselves to give us an extra PY, so took one off the true value to give 799! 


Edited by mozzy - 02 Nov 18 at 1:28pm
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 18 at 1:38pm
Light winds offer greater opportunities for good sailors to shine as they are almost always flukier and variable. When it's windy just hiking harder than the next guy goes a long way.

Edited by Sam.Spoons - 02 Nov 18 at 1:57pm
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Posts: 590 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Cirrus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 18 at 1:39pm
Reasonable discussion Phantom/Blaze and mostly right so far imo. (Remember as always for forum purposes a 'bandit' is a boat somebody else sails .. and beats you)

One point that has not been mentioned is that the standard Phantom sail is over a square metre larger than the standard Blaze one.... this exaggerates the light/heavy wind differences and characteristics.  Put the 'large' alternative Halo sail on the Blaze and it can match the Phantom more closely in the light stuff  but most crews are naturally faster with the (smaller) standard Blaze sail once they can fullly plane the boat ... and prefer that generally higher breeze configuration.  FYI the Phantom main and the Halo main are within 0.1 of a metre of each other.....  
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 18 at 2:04pm
Originally posted by mozzy


My biggest issue is the 800 handicap. 799! I mean c'mon. It just tweaks my OCD. Couldn't they just give us one messily PY number so we don't have to scratch our eyes out every-time we read handicap results. 
Plot twist... the RS handicap is actually 800, but the PY committee thought no one would believe such a coincidence and it would undermine the credibility of the system... and they couldn't bring themselves to give us an extra PY, so took one off the true value to give 799! 


But that’s okay, because they added about 840 to the RS200 handicap
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 18 at 2:21pm
Well here's a thing, there's a girl sailing a Fire rig that gives folk a good run for their money, as for the Contender not giving it to Lasers (Notwithstanding the biggest Bandit of them all right now) that must be down to the Contender sailor being either very heavy or of the sort who's brain only functions driven by an anemometer style generator between his ears. Now they won't beat the [s]Bandit[/s] Laser on handicap but they'll easily beat them over the water. I can't believe that H2 isn't an absolute weapon in light airs.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 18 at 2:28pm
Originally posted by Cirrus

Reasonable discussion Phantom/Blaze and mostly right so far imo. (Remember as always for forum purposes a 'bandit' is a boat somebody else sails .. and beats you)
One point that has not been mentioned is that the standard Phantom sail is over a square metre larger than the standard Blaze one.... this exaggerates the light/heavy wind differences and characteristics.  Put the 'large' alternative Halo sail on the Blaze and it can match the Phantom more closely in the light stuff  but most crews are naturally faster with the (smaller) standard Blaze sail once they can fullly plane the boat ... and prefer that generally higher breeze configuration.  FYI the Phantom main and the Halo main are within 0.1 of a metre of each other.....  



No, and as a man who truly defines the description, a Bandit is a good sailor who knowingly chooses either an entry level or old style boat revised with modern construction, to gain advantage, commercial or otherwise.

Whereas a Hero is one who chooses a boat with a lousy handicap to compete with, just for the sheer fun of the boat.

And a Sheep is a sailor who believes One Design class racing is all there is.

Edited by iGRF - 02 Nov 18 at 2:29pm
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Posts: 750 		Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Nov 18 at 3:01pm
Originally posted by iGRF

Well here's a thing, there's a girl sailing a Fire rig that gives folk a good run for their money, as for the Contender not giving it to Lasers (Notwithstanding the biggest Bandit of them all right now) that must be down to the Contender sailor being either very heavy or of the sort who's brain only functions driven by an anemometer style generator between his ears. Now they won't beat the [s]Bandit[/s] Laser on handicap but they'll easily beat them over the water. I can't believe that H2 isn't an absolute weapon in light airs.

The H2 is a bit of a bandit when it gets windy. We sail it off 1022 at our club but frankly once it gets to a F4 I would still win with minutes to spare if they raced me off 999. It is nearly 2m wide so you get the leverage effect of a Blaze and it seems to be very stable off wind and through the gybes. It seems harder to get the boat to really go well in the very light stuff and I suspect this is due to the wetted area plus it is not the fastest boat through the tack so you cant just be like a laser and tack on each small shift.
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