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JohnJack View Drop Down
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Posts: 246 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Great British Sailing Challenge
    Posted: 02 Oct 18 at 12:50pm
Why not get points from all the class/handicap opens that already exist?
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 18 at 1:27pm
I’d imagine because there’s no income streams without the umbrella approach
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 18 at 2:08pm
Right now I'd give a lot to race against people in Farr 3.7s, just to see how far off the pace I still am, I can't get even close to sailing it to 1063 (the Great Lakes Handicap)unless it's so windy everyone else gets blown off, not often I favour class racing but in this instance it's what I need more than fighting for clean air amongst fast boats sailed by slow sailors. I had been thinking of giving one of the winter events a go in it on a forecast if we get something windy above 10 degrees this season, but other than that, the roads haven't become less crowded, putting all the covers on and taking the mast down less hassle and finding accommodation any easier so I can't see many more folk than go right now stepping up to the plate.
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Posts: 750 		Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 18 at 3:34pm
Personally I think its a good idea. I enjoy the SJ winter series events, I like the handicap racing opens and I like racing at my club. More options for sailing has to be a good thing in my view!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Oct 18 at 7:03pm
What makes the winter series so popular?

In order i'd say:
  1. Niche on calendar
  2. Central venues
  3. Seasonally advantageous venues
  4. Existing popularity of events
  5. Publicity
  6. Handicaps
  7. Trackers
They will definitely lose 1, then they will have to chose between keeping central venues (2) or moving to the coastal venues which are seasonally advantageous (3) in the summer. 

They're aren't as many pre-existing popular summer events to build from (4). Probably only the Birkett comes to mind, and I don't think the other long distance races would be safe with the mix of boats this circuit is for. 

So, basically need to hope that 5, 6 and 7 pull them through. I personally think the team behind it over eggs the impact 6 has on the popularity. And it will be interesting if they go for coastal venues how the handicaps work out. 

I think it could be good for classes that effectively don't have a circuit, though. 
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Posts: 750 		Post Options Post Options   Quote H2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 18 at 7:55am
Mozzy - I agree with your comments, especially the last part about classes that do not have a circuit which if you look at the stats or read many of the open meeting reports on here which would suggest that the majority of classes have small turn outs for events of 10 or so boats.

At our H2 AGM this year we acknowledged that we are a small if growing fleet and having our own opens may not make total sense so we decided to combine our opens with other existing large events. Our Inlands this year will take place as part of the Draycote Dash for example as that way if you show up you are guaranteed good racing - hopefully against 20 or so other H2s but for sure there will be a big handicap fleet and some good racing as a result. As we get more H2s launched we may well revisit this but for a class that can expect to see 10 boats show up to an open does it not make more sense for the club and for the sailors that it is part of a bigger event.

To your point about Summer events that this could latch into - I think you have a point but there are events like POSH which may not be totemic as the winter series but they are out there. Or why not hook into one or two days of the various dinghy weeks that seem to be in resurgence? I think there probably are coastal events in the summer that this could link into.
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Old Timer View Drop Down
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Posts: 370 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 18 at 8:30am
I'd say the current open meeting circuits model is in decline ... I'm not sure many would argue against that.

So the options are:

1) Innovate new attractive events for the travelling sailor
2) Focus on developing clubs so people don't have to travel
3) Do not and allow the current model to wither ...
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 18 at 8:50am
Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by JimC

I dunno, I'm not sure this is a great idea. The "summer for class racing" "winter for handicap events" works pretty well, and while big events are nice earners for individual clubs that have the capacity to host them, its also takingaway people from the individual clubs.


This is spot on... what clubs will be left to host such events when many could be left running on shoestring budgets - both in terms of Man power and financial resources.   

This programme facilitates a zero requirement for club membership - whilst that has always been the case to some extent, this really could blow the bloody doors off.

I am of the opinion that there should be a national requirement to be a member of an RYA recognised club in order to race ... and that racing as RYA should not meet  this requirement.  I know that there are those on this forum that disagree, but imo being a member of an RYA club is important to ensuring that the virtuous circle of our lifetime activity in the sport works.

As I see it, this is an open meeting circuit for handicap racers, imo a flawed type of racing, when our club only offers this as the only option I prefer to do non sailing activities, so good luck to them, but I would be surprised if this gets any traction.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 18 at 8:51am
The 800s are effectively doing that too (piggy backing existing / multi-class events). A lot of our events are shared opens, which being part of the RS family works quite well, as you have the Spring Champs, Summer Champs, Inlands and End of Seasons as multi class RS events already laid on. 

Next year we're counting the HISC Regatta (25-26th May) and the East Coast Piers Race as part of our circuit too. So when you look, it's only Stokes Bay and Lyme Regis which are RS800 opens. The crucial thing, is that we'll be getting a class start in all but the East Coast Piers Race (which is a bit of an exception anyway). 

This suits me, as I think actually the number of boats required to get good fleet racing, is only about 15. But off the water you really want 100+ people to fill out a clubhouse and make the social aspect work. The downside is waiting for your class starts in multi-class events. 

Anyway, going off topic... if you are going to create a class circuit from existing events, then I think there are better formats than mass start handicap events. But, let's see what they do!


Edited by mozzy - 03 Oct 18 at 8:58am
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Fatboi View Drop Down
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Posts: 189 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Fatboi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03 Oct 18 at 10:21am
Originally posted by Old Timer

I'd say the current open meeting circuits model is in decline ... I'm not sure many would argue against that.

So the options are:

1) Innovate new attractive events for the travelling sailor
2) Focus on developing clubs so people don't have to travel
3) Do not and allow the current model to wither ...

I think if you sailed a Laser, Solo or Merlin or in most of the youth classes then you would argue that. 

The real problem is the dilution of classes as people sail random other boats when it becomes clear that they cannot be competitive in a well sailed popular class at club or open level and they get bored of being beaten, so hide behind PY racing with excuses as long as their arms is safe for their egos. 
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