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Rupert View Drop Down
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    Posted: 19 Dec 14 at 11:03am
Every rule set seems to reach a point where all that can be done has been done. At that point you either change the rules to free up development again (think the I14, when it unified, and on other occasions) or you simply tinker round the edges, which is where the Merlins are now. If they are happy with that, then that is fine, but maybe it is time for a new 2 handed restricted development rule set to come out.

Agree the SMODs haven't helped the sailor technical knowledge base at all.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 14 at 11:06am
I guess the issue is that people used to have more time to become mad scientists/experimenters. These days there is just far too much draw on peoples time so things like tinkering in the shed for hours tend to take a back seat.

The realm of new hulls seems to be restricted to the 'professional' designers and a very very dedicated amateurs who are time rich or if they do it as a project which is how the D-Zero got started. I am told from reliable sources that were it not for the one (and so far only) FOM then the Punk might still be just another great idea and single prototype (I know Dan lurks round here I am sure he will correct that if it is wrong).
Paul
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 14 at 11:22am
Originally posted by Rupert

Every rule set seems to reach a point where all that can be done has been done.

Don't forget new technology. Given a reasonably flexible rule set that can make new things possible. The new box rule Canoes are much narrower than their predecessors of the 1960s which had fundamentally the same hull shape restrictions, and I think much lighter spars and sails, plus other technology improvements are what has made that possible.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tgruitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 14 at 11:36am
Originally posted by iGRF

Pretty much my point, what's radical in constraining yourself within the bounds of a clinker built hull and wasting all that effort to make it fractionally faster and with all due respect Jim, much as I admire the Cherubim, another couple of feet on the hull length or the ability to use tail foils would stop all that bucking and tail walking.
.


Most of the Cherubs have a rudder foil GRF...
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 14 at 11:46am
The IC is a really interesting case. Freeze the hull design for nigh on 40 years, then open it up again and see what happens. Had the freeze not been there, would we have seen a much more gradual transition of evolution rather than the revolution that has taken place, but ended up in a similar position, or would the boats (somehow) be well ahead of where they are now.

The Merlins have a much more strict rule set, and have to incorporate the technology into those rules. Carbon fake clinker hulls are the result, and a rig that is 2nd to non when it comes to technology, but has to use the sail plan rules that are currently in place. For me, all it would take to kick start Merlin development again would be to scrap clinker and to free up the sail shape a bit more. However, the Merlins are happy where they are, and I have no intention of sailing one in either form, so it really isn't anything but an academic interest from me.

Been thinking about the idea I agreed with that SMODs make for technology poor sailors. The juxtaposition of that is that the best SMODS ought to bring out the best in their designers - they aren't constricted by the rule sets of an existing class. However, how often do we really see that?

Lets take the offspring of the N12. How were they radical? Firefly - design, no. Construction, yes,very.  Graduate - design, no, construction, no. Lark - design, yesish, construction, no, not really. RS200 - design, not sure, construction, no. So 4 very successful offshoots, but barring the hull construction of the Firefly, pretty conservative boats, based very much around the concepts of the boats they came from. The Grad was even made slower, so it didn't beat the N12s of the time.

So, which ODs really broke the mould?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tgruitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 14 at 12:18pm
Originally posted by Rupert

The IC is a really interesting case. Freeze the hull design for nigh on 40 years, then open it up again and see what happens. Had the freeze not been there, would we have seen a much more gradual transition of evolution rather than the revolution that has taken place, but ended up in a similar position, or would the boats (somehow) be well ahead of where they are now.

The Merlins have a much more strict rule set, and have to incorporate the technology into those rules. Carbon fake clinker hulls are the result, and a rig that is 2nd to non when it comes to technology, but has to use the sail plan rules that are currently in place. For me, all it would take to kick start Merlin development again would be to scrap clinker and to free up the sail shape a bit more. However, the Merlins are happy where they are, and I have no intention of sailing one in either form, so it really isn't anything but an academic interest from me.




Second that. SCRAP THE CLINKER!!!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 14 at 12:25pm
Scrap the clinker ?

Well it fits the call to 'radicalism' a bit !  But you could simply 'fair-in' the clinker with a decent filler and refinish the hulls .. and drop a few kg of 'dead-weight' correctors when you are finished.  Not desperately expensive and would allow many/most boats to 'upgrade' within minimum weight rules.   Side benefit ? - might make new hulls a bit cheaper as well

I know it is missing part of the point/appeal of a Merlin.  .... but this is a 'development' forum section is it not !   .... and it might be a more interesting subject than some that, like  the living dead or 'zombie' threads, never quite seem to die around here.  Wink

Mike L.


 


Edited by blaze720 - 19 Dec 14 at 12:26pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote NHRC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 14 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by jeffers

I guess the issue is that people used to have more time to become mad scientists/experimenters. These days there is just far too much draw on peoples time so things like tinkering in the shed for hours tend to take a back seat.
The realm of new hulls seems to be restricted to the 'professional' designers and a very very dedicated amateurs who are time rich or if they do it as a project which is how the D-Zero got started. I am told from reliable sources that were it not for the one (and so far only) FOM then the Punk might still be just another great idea and single prototype (I know Dan lurks round here I am sure he will correct that if it is wrong).


I don't think people want to spend that time, rather than the time not being available...!!



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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 14 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by NHRC

Originally posted by jeffers

I guess the issue is that people used to have more time to become mad scientists/experimenters. These days there is just far too much draw on peoples time so things like tinkering in the shed for hours tend to take a back seat.
The realm of new hulls seems to be restricted to the 'professional' designers and a very very dedicated amateurs who are time rich or if they do it as a project which is how the D-Zero got started. I am told from reliable sources that were it not for the one (and so far only) FOM then the Punk might still be just another great idea and single prototype (I know Dan lurks round here I am sure he will correct that if it is wrong).


I don't think people want to spend that time, rather than the time not being available...!!




There is an element of that yes.

Free time is a precious commodity these days.....
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 19 Dec 14 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by jeffers

There is an element of that yes.
Free time is a precious commodity these days.....

Not judging by the amount of time some of us spend on these forums...

I think space is a problem for a lot of people too. If you live in a city house with no garage, or for that matter a garage stuffed with 5 mountain bikes, two sailboards, a washing machine and a tumble dryer, etc etc...
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