Tangible Boat Value

Originally posted by Peaky Very true Dan, but in purely economic terms shouldn't you pay £3k for the boat and high race entry fees, rather than hiding it all in the purchase price?

That economic assumes the builder holds all the cards- which is simply not the case, the RYA own the rule set, the class association owns the circuit IP and essentially the clubs own their club racing. The builder is in a relatively poor position- commercially speaking anyway and very susceptible to consumer whim- fortunately dinghy sailors are conservative by nature, and not all of them are as fickle as some.

Rather than knocking business models that work, is there anything positive you can suggest?

The Solo, or any other established class offers a package that people understand and choose to buy into or not.
Whether you think it's expensive is a personal judgement.
Let's say it costs about £1500 a year to have a Solo, taking depreciation over two or three years and the odd new sail and stuff. For that you get a lot of people to race against many times a year. Even in my little club there are at  least three Solos who would give me a good race twice a week, you could look at that as about 300 boat on boat contests or about a fiver a go.

An awful lot of people spend a lot more on all sorts of sports, try any form of motorsport, gliding, paragliding, scuba diving skiing etc. Many of these are a lot more £ per year and a lot less outings.

Whatever sailing is held back by, I don't think it's the cost. Particularly capital cost. We just don't see many people racing regularly in really cheap old boats because that's all they can afford.

To be clear, I'm not knocking anyone's choice to sail a Solo, nor am I saying the builders are ripping anyone off. I'm merely questioning the sustainability, going forward, of charging £2k more for a Solo than a Aero or Zero. It is difficult to see how that differential can be justified by the boat alone.

Clearly boat builders have to make a living and can't sell boats for less than they cost to produce. But if the paying public aren't willing to pay what the builder needs to make a profit, the product will stop being made.

As someone who went to the show with money burning a hole in my pocket, the sensible choice for me was a Solo, as there is a fleet at my club. But it is difficult to stump up £2k extra for the boat when it is an older design concept, no matter how well executed. So I didn't get one.

To say a Solo is expensive is not a personal judgement. It is easy to benchmark against other dinghies and see that there are lower priced alternatives, often with better specs. I know it's not excess profit, and that's what it costs to make. But no one owes P&B a living.

I'm not picking on the Solo, it is just an example. Another is the Tasar. A great boat that I have nearly bought on three separate occasions, but they are over £11k new, which is about £3k more than an RS200 or Icon. That differential may be okay in Oz where the Tasar has strong fleets, but here it simply isn't worth it. And there are plenty of other classes where the price of the boat is only tolerated because there is an established fleet. This is an insular and introspective model that may still generate sales to existing owners or into established fleets, but will not lead to the establishment of new fleets and hence growth. And once the core of the fleet abandon it for something else, the whole thing can very quickly implode and fade away - just look at the ISO, Enterprise, Laser 4000 etc.

Matt, just for the record I don't think there will be much difference between all up weights with the zero and aero....in production.  Keep an open mind until you have seen both full production models.

Originally posted by sargesail I'm with Peaky here.  The real threat, if we have to see it that way, to exisiting classes, lies not with the aesthetics and innovation of the D-Zero, or the lightness and innovation of the Aero, but in the pricing strategy (as long as it lasts).

I don't think classes like the Solo really have a 'pricing strategy'.
They cost about the minimum that a builder can reasonably charge for a low volume boat.

The only way you'll get them cheaper might be if 20 people put in a bulk order.
That sort of thing does happen in local one-designs.

You also have to remember that SMOD pricing seems to drift toward OD pricing after a few years when the numbers drop off.

Also, I expect you could get a pretty competitive used Solo with a new sail for about the price of an Aero? And which would have more resale value in two years? I can't say I'm exactly in tune with a culture of 'gotta have brand new, but moan about the price'. I could probably afford a new car and a new boat if that really mattered to me, but I'm relaxed with what I have.

That's not to say I'm not interested by newer, lighter designs. That's progress, in both boats and motorbikes, but as they say, if you want the toys, you've got to do the overtime.