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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6661 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: *Continuing* Obstruction
    Posted: 07 Jan 14 at 8:50am
No, the moving vessel is never a continuing obstruction. However if you are close enough to a moving supertanker for RRS to come into play I submit that the fine detail of the rules is the least of your problems.
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 14 at 9:47am
"The distinction made is between an object that continues in space, and an object, such as another boat racing with right of way, which is not continuously large, but may, because of its movement, continue to be an obstruction for some considerable time."

I mis read this the first time round - Thanks Jim, it is as I originally thought.
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 14 at 9:49am
And yes, having been near container ships with apparantly on one on board, I'd have to agree about RRS being low on the priority list.
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 14 at 11:23am
So does a 1km long exclusion zone in front of a tanker rank as a continuing obstruction?
Would your obligation not to impede some vessels under IRPCS create a continuing obstruction?
If the shore is a continuing obstruction, how big does the Island have to be?

A solitary rock, which you might reasonably pass either side of is presumably not 'continuing'.
But if you have opted to pass one side of a shallow patch that is say 100m long, that could be 'continuiing'?
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 14 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

So does a 1km long exclusion zone in front of a tanker rank as a continuing obstruction?

I would be happy to treat an exclusion zone as an obstruction.

We really must not use the RRS as an incentive for racers to break the law.

1km long:  looks continuous, and therefore continuing to me.

Would your obligation not to impede some vessels under IRPCS create a continuing obstruction?

Well, a vessel is probably an obstruction, whether or not it is under way and whether or not it has right of way:  just apply the definition.

The only time a vessel (of sufficient relative size) is not an obstruction is when it is a boat racing that you are not required to keep clear of or avoid.

Room includes room to comply with the rules of Part 2.  Preamble to Part 2 obliges boats bound by the RRS, with respect to boats that are not, to comply with IRPCAS and the Preamble is a rule.

So the answer is don't cut it fine with commercial traffic and don't force another boat to do so.

If the shore is a continuing obstruction, how big does the Island have to be?

I wasn't aware that the size of the Island was optionally variable.  Have the members of the Island Sailing Club been consulted?

A solitary rock, which you might reasonably pass either side of is presumably not 'continuing'.

If you are really in any doubt consult your dictionary.

But if you have opted to pass one side of a shallow patch that is say 100m long, that could be 'continuiing'?

Once again, if you are in doubt consult your dictionary (but don't spell it like that <g>).


Edited by Brass - 07 Jan 14 at 1:02pm
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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 14 at 1:10pm
 I really fail to understand that a very long vessel underway is not sometimes a continuing obstruction.

It seems to me that such a vessel can obstruct a continuous area or create a continuous boundary, that is possibly much longer than bits of land that clearly do get treated as continuous under RRS.

Imagine two lasers running down the edge of a deepwater channel with a ship in the channel.
I would expect the other laser to treat the ship and the area in front of it much the same as if it was a wall.
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 14 at 1:52pm
The Laser closer to the ship would have rights to avoid a moving obstruction, rather than a continuing one. In such situations I don't think it makes any difference, really - you'd still need to allow the boat room not to ram the whacking great ship, whatever kind of ostruction it is.
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Posts: 641 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Presuming Ed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 14 at 2:48pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

 I really fail to understand that a very long vessel underway is not sometimes a continuing obstruction.

Last sentence of the definition of obstruction. "A vessel under way,including a boat racing, is never a continuing obstruction."

& from the terminology: "‘vessel’ means any boat or ship."
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 14 at 9:55pm
Originally posted by RS400atC

 I really fail to understand that a very long vessel underway is not sometimes a continuing obstruction.

Maybe the reason for this is that it is not desirable, when near a large moving ship, to be relieving the outside boat of the obligation to give room at the last minute dependent on whether there is 'enough room' for the inside boat to pass between the outside boat and the ship under rule 19.2( c ).
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 Jan 14 at 10:17pm
Originally posted by Brass

Originally posted by RS400atC

 I really fail to understand that a very long vessel underway is not sometimes a continuing obstruction.

Maybe the reason for this is that it is not desirable, when near a large moving ship, to be relieving the outside boat of the obligation to give room at the last minute dependent on whether there is 'enough room' for the inside boat to pass between the outside boat and the ship under rule 19.2( c ).


Yes, I'd just re-read the rules and came to the conclusion that is the only effect of it.
Maybe 'continuing obstruction' should be in itallics, as it is effectively a defined term.
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