| Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
 |
| Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
 |
List classes of boat for sale |
After Finishing |
Post Reply 
|
Page <123> |
| Author |
 Share Topic Printable Version Delicious Digg Facebook Furl Google MySpace Newsvine reddit StumbleUpon Translate Twitter Windows Live Yahoo Bookmarks Topic Search  Topic Options
|
CurlyBen 
Really should get out more 
Joined: 17 Aug 05 Location: Southampton Online Status: Offline Posts: 539 |
 Post Options
 Quote Reply
 Topic: After FinishingPosted: 18 Oct 05 at 9:00pm |
|
I've left school now so it doesn't really make much difference to me!
However I suspect that the rule 86.1 bit probably applies to things
such as national or international events. I'm not sure but I don't
think any regulations cover sailing on a lake on a national level, and
pretty certain there are none for racing, so to a certain extent people
can do as they please; the ISAF can't exactly tell people to stop
racing just becuase they consider racing rules to apply from the 1
minute signal! To be honest I never really paid much attention to the
sailing instruction I referred to, I think the idea was something to do
with proper course, i.e. before 1 minute you had no proper course,
after the 1 minute your proper course was towards the line - applicable
if you're the leeward boat and established an overlap from astern. I
tended to concentrate more on getting a good start!
|
|
 |
|
|
Stefan Lloyd
Really should get out more
Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 Oct 05 at 8:41am |
|
You are either racing to the ISAF rules or you are not. If you are, then SIs can't change part 2 ("when boats meet") rules and certain others defined in rule 86. That includes the aspects we have been discussing in this thread. It makes no difference if it is a World Championship or a Sunday club race. Race organisers can run events to any rules they want but generally they don't. They use the ISAF rules. If you have any taken part in a sport where different organisers make up their own rules, you will know it is a complete nightmare and in particular makes international competition very difficult. We are lucky in sailing to have one internationally accepted set of rules. Not all sports are so well run. |
|
|
|
|
RC311
Newbie 
Joined: 07 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 5 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 Oct 05 at 9:11am |
|
Seems like we still don't have a definitive answer to the initial question.
Stefan and Reddeck are quite correct that the offending boat could be protested under rule 22.1 - but what's the penalty? Idon't think it could be called 'unfair sailing' because the incident was unintentional, so he could not be dsq under rule 2. And what of the poor boat who was fouled and lost places - I can't see any grounds for redress! As stefan points out, this situation occurs in keelboat racing, and is also a not uncommon situation in radio controlled racing when skippers mentally switch off after the finish and sail back through the finishing fleet. |
|
|
311
|
|
|
|
|
Stefan Lloyd
Really should get out more
Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 Oct 05 at 11:52am |
|
Certainly there would have been grounds for redress, had a protest been filed in time, which I assume it wasn't. RRS 62.1b covers exactly this situation. The only available penalty on the offending boats appears to be DSQ, unless the SIs make a time penalty available. See 64.1a. However it seems rather harsh and in practice I've never heard of this happening to a boat that is not racing. |
|
|
|
|
RC311
Newbie
Joined: 07 Sep 05 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 5 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 Oct 05 at 1:44pm |
|
Thanks Stefan, your interpretations seems correct. I guess if there was a
collision, then the boat still racing would HAVE to protest anyway. |
|
|
311
|
|
|
|
|
gordon
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 19 Oct 05 at 11:37pm |
|
Just goes to show that not many people involved in our sport - including those who write SIs - actually read and understand the Rules. In the (good) old days when yachts (including dinghies) has flag halyards they would replace their cruising pennant before racing with a rectangular racing pennant. Racing Rules would apply between boats flying their racing pennnants. As I see it a boat having finished should keep clear of a yacht still racing. Should she infringe this rule she can be protested...and be penalised by the Protest Committee (even if the other boat was sailing in a separate event. Shoulkd it be unclear that one boat has not finished Part 2 rules apply. If it is clear that one boat is not, and has not been racing Coll Regs apply - and a boat can be penalised for infringing Coll Regs. This applies even on a duckpond
Gordon |
|
|
Gordon
|
|
|
|
|
NeilP
Far too distracted from work 
Joined: 23 Nov 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 271 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 15 Nov 05 at 10:56am |
|
Spot on Gordon. If you have finished and impede or collide with a boat still racing, and they protest you, the the protest would have to be upheld. The penalty would depend on whether time penalties are available to the PC. Neil |
|
|
|
|
CurlyBen
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 Aug 05 Location: Southampton Online Status: Offline Posts: 539 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 15 Nov 05 at 7:12pm |
I was looking at the rules on the ISAF website - 01-04 rules but I doubt this has changed - and while you are right with what you quote, the preamble continues to say "A boat is racing from her preparatory signal until she finishes and clears the finishing line and marks or retires, or until the race committee signals a general recall, postponement or abandonment. a boat not racing shall not be penalized for breaking one of these rules, except rule 22.1" Doesn't make any difference to this particular case, but if you can't be penalised under them then effectively the racing rules don't apply until the preparotory signal (other than 22.1 obviously) |
|
|
|
|
Stefan Lloyd
Really should get out more
Joined: 03 Aug 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1599 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 15 Nov 05 at 7:33pm |
|
Yes but two points. The first is that you were originally arguing that the rules didn't start till 1 minute. The preparatory is normally 4 minutes. Second point is that 22.1 is extremely wide-ranging. You basically have no rights versus a boat that is racing. In some kinds of racing, it is extremely common to have boats around you racing while you are waiting for your start sequence. |
|
|
|
|
gordon
Really should get out more
Joined: 07 Sep 04 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1037 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 15 Nov 05 at 7:45pm |
|
Gordon
|
|
|
|
|
Post Reply
|
Page <123> |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy