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Wood or GRP?
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Paramedic View Drop Down
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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Wood or GRP?
    Posted: 01 Jan 13 at 8:27am
You won't get an epoxy frp boat for 1k though! I don't think you'll find a decent polyester one for that budget either.
 
Some classes took better to FRP than others, the GP14 for example. The Holt/Speed version while it had it's issues was actually quite well put together and even early examples are still on the pace. The Enterprise with it's light weight and big flat panels however was a differant story and quickly gained a reputation as a one season wonder.
 
I don't think going Epoxy made much differance to the GP. It's so heavy that you can built it amply strong enough with polyester and still have enough weight for correctors. With the price of epoxy hulls in a class that has always marketed itself as cheap and cheerful i wouldn't be suprised to see a new polyester alternative appear.
 
The antithesis of that is the Phantom which was transformed by going epoxy, though the carbon rigs arrived at roughly the same time. The polyester boats that survive - mostly - are awful, being heavy, flexible or both.
 
The Woofe built RS400 and 200 are also examples of well constrtucted polyesterboats. The Laser EPS a classic example of a boat built out of the wrong materials (Probably the worst constructed modern era hull i've seen).
 
So it pays to do your homework!


Edited by Paramedic - 01 Jan 13 at 8:37am
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Lukepiewalker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1341 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 13 at 4:47pm
They do have a maximum price limit on Epoxy hulls in the GPs mind...
Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard"
Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch"
Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air"
Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile"
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Paramedic View Drop Down
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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 13 at 5:27pm
It's still much, much more than the polyester boats used to be. I doubt they could build an epoxy hull for less, just it seems on the surface in that particular class to make so little differance that a cheaper polyester boat would probably be successful if someone were to build one.
It'll be intersting to see what happens :D
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Lukepiewalker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1341 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Lukepiewalker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 13 at 7:33pm
I haven't been paying that much attention...  Embarrassed
Remember the epoxy ones are competing with the wooden ones, and I'm sure one of them in 'grand piano' finish will comfortably outcost an epoxy one.
Ex-Finn GBR533 "Pie Hard"
Ex-National 12 3253 "Seawitch"
Ex-National 12 2961 "Curved Air"
Ex-Mirror 59096 "Voodoo Chile"
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kfz View Drop Down
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Posts: 96 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kfz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 13 at 7:47pm
Originally posted by Lukepiewalker

I haven't been paying that much attention...  Embarrassed
Remember the epoxy ones are competing with the wooden ones, and I'm sure one of them in 'grand piano' finish will comfortably outcost an epoxy one.

I think with the GP's its comparable, hence the mix of wood and FRP boats.

Good answers here BTW.

One thing to keep in mind is that you only talking about the hull here.  50% of my maintaince is one the fittings, sails, rigging, spars and the damned trailer.  To which the hull material makes nodifference.

No such thing a maint free boat!

Kev


Edited by kfz - 01 Jan 13 at 7:50pm
GP14 Fleet Captain
Liverpool Sailing Club

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RS400atC View Drop Down
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Posts: 3011 		Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 13 at 8:17pm
It seems to me that a £1k budget is quite restrictive if you want to do open meetings, regardless of the hull material.
For a bit more you could get an early RS400 and have a lot of fun without being very far off the pace.
Possibly the best 2 handed option would be a wooden Merlin, plenty of inland opens and some very good people to race against.
A wooden ent or GP would also work.
Personally I'd look at buying a cheap sound hull and buying some 1-season old sails as a good way of being 'mid fleet' competitive.
Singlehanded, RS600 will teach you loads and keep you amused, a wood solo offers lots of opens to go to. A £1k Laser is a whole lot more fun than not owning a boat.
Don't forget to cost in insurance, boat park, covers, entry fees etc.

Personally, I would only buy a wooden boat if I had somewhere to keep it out of the frost, and somewhere to work on it.
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sawman View Drop Down
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Posts: 205 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sawman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 13 at 8:40pm
interesting thread. 

A couple of years ago I bought an elderly miracle off ebay. it was scruffy but cheap and local. But would serve to teach the kids  to sail.

I painted it up, and have used it for two seasons. Last winter I spend more time than I would like chasing soft and rotten bits in the hull. 

Its currently sailable, it feels pretty solid and sails nicely. My dilemma is whether its worth replacing the whole floor as a one off fix and then keeping it for a few more years, possibly also investing in new sails as the current ones are 30 years old, or flogging it off as it is and buying a new frp miracle (theres not many frp boats in the resale market). Obviously there is a short term difference in cost, but a new boat would be maintenance free for a good while, right?

My plan is to hit the open circuit and possibly nationals over the next year
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Paramedic View Drop Down
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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 13 at 8:48pm
I think you'd get a half decent wooden scorp for about £1k. an old Osprey falls into this budget too, and should be on the pace. A good but narrow bowed Fireball (HPS, Plycraft or early Winder) is also acheiveable but now outclassed at opens really.
Singlehanded wise as stated some of the older Solos are excellent (Lovett built boats are still sought after!).
 
Equally (My loathing of single skin polyester apart!) you'd get a decent mk 2 parker Lark for about £1k i'd have thought, though the new boats are probably in another league.
 
Another £500 would go a long way really.
 
Frost damage, again i come back to if the boat is regulary aired it's much less of a problem. If you leave it damp and covered up for months at a time you'll get frost damage. Another area often neglected is the coating under the decks, often never ever re-done and a good source of water ingress as it condenses underneath.
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Paramedic View Drop Down
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Posts: 929 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Paramedic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 13 at 8:52pm
Originally posted by sawman

but a new boat would be maintenance free for a good while, right?
 
 
No boat is ever mainteneance free! Plastic boats do need carefull storage. You see loads of boats with blisters in the gelcoat because they've been left for a week with soaking wet sails sitting on the gel, or pools of water round the mast.
 
Plastic boats stored badly are more of a pain than wooden ones. They don't need to be kept in the garage, but they do benefit enormously from not being left soaking wet 24/7. By all means keep it outside but take as much stuff out, allow it to drain and it'll be fine all yeat round as long as it's got a decent cover.
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sawman View Drop Down
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Posts: 205 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sawman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 13 at 9:04pm
Originally posted by Paramedic

Originally posted by sawman

but a new boat would be maintenance free for a good while, right?
 
 
No boat is ever mainteneance free! Plastic boats do need carefull storage. You see loads of boats with blisters in the gelcoat because they've been left for a week with soaking wet sails sitting on the gel, or pools of water round the mast.
 
Plastic boats stored badly are more of a pain than wooden ones. They don't need to be kept in the garage, but they do benefit enormously from not being left soaking wet 24/7. By all means keep it outside but take as much stuff out, allow it to drain and it'll be fine all yeat round as long as it's got a decent cover.

Fair comment, I tend to take sails and rudder home with me, between outings, and would probably store any boat in the garage for the worst of the winter  - I got caught out last year as we were moving house and the wooden boat was up at the club til february - Its amazing how much it deteriorated from december til february
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