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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The RS100 Owners Thread
    Posted: 16 May 13 at 1:17pm
Originally posted by getafix

Frankly that's a complete over dramatisation of the situation, perhaps others have agenda's here....

no agenda... just a prediction that this'll be the last year for the 10.2 on the circuit.  A shame, as originally it could have been the boat that transcended the 'how much you weigh' b**locks as best as anything could given the laws of physics.  But the class is splitting if this goes ahead, read the rule change proposal.  It says so quite clearly in that.

Proposal:

Supplement/replace paragraph C.1.2 - “The RS100 may be raced with either 8.4 or 10.2 sails” - with text below.

C.1.2 (i)  All Championships for the RS100 dinghy are raced as 2 classes:  The RS100 8.4 class, and RS100 10.2 class.  
C.1.2 (ii)  In all Championships, where the two classes are started together, a boat’s score for a race is that achieved only against sailors in the same class.
C.1.2 (iii) All racing below championship level, where the 2 classes start together, may additionally organise results as one fleet and one set of results, so long as results are calculated using a locally recognised handicapping scheme and only sailors weighing in excess of 86kgs may use the mast extension and 10.2 sail.
C.1.2 (iv) A sailor who swaps rigs during a regatta, or series of races or regattas, shall rank as a new starter / entry for that regatta or series. 

A simple approach, much like the 12s or 18 ft skiffs would seem to have worked.... considering the agenda here was to appeal to multiple demographics.  (I would stand by the best situation would have been only one rig in the first place... but that soon went out the window and long before any of us took possession, so multiple rigs hardly came via the back door.)

I don't notice anyone telling Sonata sailors when they MUST change to the number 2 genoa because they are too light for the number 1 sail now.  Or when was the last time that the Sigma 33 sailors sailing on the storm jib need to have their results separated from the rest of the fleet.... 

Rules, rules, rules and more rules... just what sailing needs.  Thumbs Down


Edited by pondmonkey - 16 May 13 at 1:29pm
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Ruscoe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 13 at 1:21pm
Originally posted by getafix

IMO, a mix of jealousy and resistance to change by a minority, shouldn't stifle progress for the majority.  

The Blaze needed a carbon stick and they have two sizes of sail on offer.  

RS100 has a carbon mast (thankfully) and they have 3 different sizes of sail, obviously feel the need to have a results format sorted out, ahead of regattas.

Fail to see how either class is 'split' or in 'crisis'.

Frankly that's a complete over dramatisation of the situation, perhaps others have agenda's here....
What a load of nonsense! what possible agenda would anyone have?  So i can only concluide you are aiming that at me?  If so re read my previous posts.  If not then please clarify?  Whatever the 100 fleet decide is entirely up to them.  It has no effect on what happens in my fleet.  We are not in any way interested in what does or doesn't happen in the 100 fleet.  Its almost as ridiculous as saying the Merlins are bothered by rule changes in the 400 fleet, or the Musto's by the 700.  The D1 is growing nicely and organically, we enjoy racing 100's as much as we enjoy racing other single handed assy classes.  However from the posts on the 100 forum one thing is clear though that something needs to be done, if not then why would the class be looking at a rule change?

 

Frankly your post is ridiculous unless you are trying to dramatise the situation and create another row?


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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 13 at 1:59pm
From the 26th FEB 2010....

Originally posted by Steve411

Originally posted by turnturtle

As I understood it, the relaxation of class rules in the 300 was an evolution
led by the sailors. I'm sure it was 'designed' and implemented as a form of
weight equalisation when first launched.

I hope the 100s can cut the bullsh*t phase out and learn from the positive
improvements the 300 sailors did for their class. But hey, that's just my
opinion, maybe others would prefer to see a split down the line on sail
choice once the numbers justify running larger events in a couple of heats.

You're right Jimbo, it was sailor-led. There were originally 2 cut-off weights specified. Below the lower weight you had to use the smaller (A) rig and above the higher weight you had to use the larger (B) rig. Between the 2 weight you could use either. Could only change rig once per year though. And all boats have the same handicap so there's just 1 fleet.

Now anyone of whatever weight can use either rig (but as Chris states, can only change once a year). What has happened is that several lighter sailors who originally used an A rig have developed their technique to cope with the B so have moved up. This might also happen with the 100 with those using the smaller sail perhaps moving to the larger one in a year or two's time.

Anyway, it's all self limiting. The lighter sailors with the large rig are very difficult to beat in light winds but they struggled at the champs last year when we never got below force 4. Choose your weapons...

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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 13 at 2:02pm
'GUEST' comments from someone I truly respect- not only for their ability in sailing, but their understanding of developing a really, really good class to feel part of.... 

Originally posted by Guest

Originally posted by turnturtle

Originally posted by laser193713

No that is a very bad idea! I will only be buying one
rig due to the cost and so will most others probably! Dont bring the
handicaps into the fleet racing, if the fleet gets big enough then it would be
hell trying to take all the times down as well as the sail numbers! And if it
gets really big we will want to be sailing in 2 seperate starts anyway either in
flights of mixed rigs or as seperate rigs.


why do you need to take the times? Handicapping doesn't need to exist...
simply filter the results, a bit like 'Gold' & 'Silver' fleets in the MPS... you'll
always get the odd silver fleet bod finishing above the odd gold fleet bod,
but they start at the same time and finish on the same overall results sheet.

See here for a case in point: http://tinyurl.com/yctbqo6

Rick won the Nationals, I came last... we still shared the same starts, drank some beer
and ate from the same cauldron of pasta at the end of the day... that's what great classes
do, they're inclusive.

Keeping events inclusie is key to keeping everyone interested.

We always give the best prizes to the age groups & silver & bronze.

I think Sten one a baseball cap for winning the Nationals where as the Silver winner got a nice huge Harken roller bag.

After all; it's a bunch of friends enjoying a holiday.

 



Edited by pondmonkey - 16 May 13 at 2:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 13 at 2:10pm
Hi Ruscoe

No problem ... !  Carbon was always on the cards in the long term and suits the boat .. as it does on just about every other boat.  But is/was a tough decision for the class - same as for everyone.

Halo has a minority following to date (approx 15% of Blazes have this rig as well now) as an alternative to regular mainstream 10.4m Blaze racing.  It is approximately 11.5m so for most will be a bit of a challenge.  You do not need to be 95+kg but it sure helps .. and it is really for the larger guys out there.   They all race Blazes but enjoy a bit of an alternative 'thrash' from time to time at least at club level.   In time there will no doubt be demand for a 'heavies' championship and we will support them.   The thing about the Halo sail is if you are right for it you can plane upwind for much of the time.

I'm just over 80kg and have a laugh with it and it is easy enough to get around with Halo in almost anything but .. but race competitively in stronger winds ?   I'll stick to the Blaze's 10.4m.  Wednesday evening pursuits though ?  Hell yes - a lot of fun !

Come and try in either mode some time .. you are very welcome.

Mike L.


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Ruscoe View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 13 at 2:40pm
I have tried a Blaze Mike.  Several times, nice enough boat, but not for me.  Not sure a Halo would float my boat, so to speak either.

Russ

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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 13 at 4:07pm
Originally posted by Ruscoe

Originally posted by getafix

IMO, a mix of jealousy and resistance to change by a minority, shouldn't stifle progress for the majority.  

The Blaze needed a carbon stick and they have two sizes of sail on offer.  

RS100 has a carbon mast (thankfully) and they have 3 different sizes of sail, obviously feel the need to have a results format sorted out, ahead of regattas.

Fail to see how either class is 'split' or in 'crisis'.

Frankly that's a complete over dramatisation of the situation, perhaps others have agenda's here....
What a load of nonsense! what possible agenda would anyone have?  So i can only concluide you are aiming that at me?  If so re read my previous posts.  If not then please clarify?  Whatever the 100 fleet decide is entirely up to them.  It has no effect on what happens in my fleet.  We are not in any way interested in what does or doesn't happen in the 100 fleet.  Its almost as ridiculous as saying the Merlins are bothered by rule changes in the 400 fleet, or the Musto's by the 700.  The D1 is growing nicely and organically, we enjoy racing 100's as much as we enjoy racing other single handed assy classes.  However from the posts on the 100 forum one thing is clear though that something needs to be done, if not then why would the class be looking at a rule change?

 

Frankly your post is ridiculous unless you are trying to dramatise the situation and create another row?


Row dear chap, not I, unless you don't think this is provocative, you might remember, you posted it yesterday at 2.21, it's on page 180 of this thread...

"I seem to remember a few years ago Mike being very vocal about not want ing to split what they had by introducing a kite.  So they launched that massively succesful new Halo class....Now with Carbon masts the class is looking more fragmented.  Lets resurect the Blaze kite thread as well, forum has been to quite lately." 

.. I merely offered an opinion that others were stirring (Jimbo has made lavish use of the word "split" in his recent posts) where there really wasn't that much controversy in the first place, if any at all, it's a forum, as long as it's polite, what's wrong with expressing a view or two, or three come to that?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 13 at 4:37pm
You stated people had other agendas, im not sure anyone does.  Not sure where in my tongue in cheek post which may i add links off my other post has any kind of agenda?  Nothing wrong with airing any thoughts you have on a matter, anyones opinion is valid as it is just that an opinion! 

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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 13 at 4:38pm
If there's no 'controversy' then we can just assume there's no requirement to tighten up the wording, nor any requirement to seek a re-draft before publishing it?  'Controversy' is strong word of course, and you won't find me saying that in my recent posts.  I've just said the fleets will split.  Which they will, if you read the wording of the proposed change.

I guess the truth is the class majority on 8.4s has spoken- they want the 8.4 fleet to be one fleet on its own, hence the proposal.  If the fatties don't move across, so what... better to have a race of 30 on the 8.4 rig than 40 in the 'RS100' fleet.   That's their decision of course, one facilitated by a lack of control over these (inevitable) issues from the outset.

As for the 7.4 sailors- well they didn't even get a consideration.  I guess their arms were too short to be seen at the AGM.    God knows what would happen if someone pulled together another rig- maybe a 9 meter 'coastal' rig to bridge the gap????

I don't really care that much, it just seems a shame to look in from the outside and see the class self destruct.  They're certainly not growing judging from the entries in the events and effectively cutting the class down to the 8.4 rig will certainly not bolster its image at club level- having its arse handed to it by Lasers around the cans!!!!

Let us not forget the amazing positivity there was when this was launched- now it's just another boring class association bogged down with factions rather than growing and embracing new faces, even podgy ones that can hold their beer...

This quote pretty much summed up my view at the time too.  Times change.  That's not controversy, it's just life.

Originally posted by ChrisC

I would much prefer this arrangement - both fleets racing together. 
Ultimately it is going to be the only way to truly test if the rig sizes actually 
perform differently in the same conditions - plus it will make for much 
better big fleet racing. 



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Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 May 13 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by fab100

The key point is that the racing is at least as tight as ever, even when it was blowing old boots at times at POSH last w/e. In one race in particular, places 4-9 were spread across only 4 or so boat lengths - and first and second not that far away either.

that's good to hear... interesting the RS Class Association have published the results without any splits on this event.  


From an external perspective that looks like 14 guys all racing together... i.e. GOOD

Of course, if the racing would be so much better if you weren't racing together and there were what, 10 on 8.4s and a 4 on 10.2... well, it doesn't look so good imho.

It's a shame really- the 300 guys trod this path before the 100 and came up with a viable working solution.  Seems a dumb-ass move to try and do something different, unless the agenda really is to phase out the 10.2 rig now Paul's left.
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