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Woodburner View Drop Down
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    Posted: 25 Mar 15 at 9:45am
What's happening here Are the french already doing something similar to what we're talking about?

Edited by Woodburner - 25 Mar 15 at 10:08am
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Posts: 478 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 15 at 9:48am
Try analyzing why people sail. There may be people who wish to plod around with a picnic and people who wish to play with an old Laser in the surf but the core of sailors are sport sailors. They are the ones who stay with it and try to improve and win races. Look at those sailors, they all have a technical interest in boats, no one won a race with the sails on upside down? We can have barbecues or play pirates but the backbone of the sport is those guys who just want to be out there racing.

We have almost no juniors but on Sunday there were 22 boats out in a crap wind on a sunny but cold day. The age range was from 25 to 76, all racing hard and all experienced sailors. Another local club has loads of kids out on a Friday night splashing round in Toppers but few racing on a Sunday.

I sail much less these days but I am constantly involved in sailing, mending, improving and helping. I am an enthusiast. Most of our members are enthusiasts. We could die the water pink or build a fun fair on the dinghy park, that should pack the buggers in but it is the genuine racing enthusiasts who are the future of the sport.
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 15 at 11:11am
Graeme, some great commentary behind the French PY process on the  Zero facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/groups/devoti.zero/850452248362076/?notif_t=group_comment_reply
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 15 at 11:15am
Originally posted by sargesail

So instead let's look at what happens in Utopia when DRAGB starts up with its 'banded' Super Classes, racing level.

I think one only needs to look at what happened with Fastsail and TASA, which were exactly what was suggested, bands of similar classes. They lasted a few years and died out when the initial wave of enthusiasm went. Logically you'd think it ought to work, but clearly it didn't.


Edited by JimC - 25 Mar 15 at 11:16am
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Posts: 332 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodburner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 15 at 11:28am
Originally posted by Null

Graeme, some great commentary behind the French PY process on the  Zero facebook page

https://www.facebook.com/groups/devoti.zero/850452248362076/?notif_t=group_comment_reply

Well I hate to admit the French do anything better than us, but that is certainly to use their term, philosophically a better way to proceed than moving things around just based on dodgy data as our lot do at the moment.

I've been studying their list and they have some very different ratings to us, I'm going to guess presumably because they have more sea based contributions than our puddle data or die attitude.

I also like it that someone is prepared to look at existing boats as a sample, they've got the EPS Blaze X thing about right, I like what they've done with their groupings, interesting they've actually done what I was proposing, it certainly shows more logic than our mess.
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Old Timer View Drop Down
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Posts: 370 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 15 at 11:29am
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by sargesail

So instead let's look at what happens in Utopia when DRAGB starts up with its 'banded' Super Classes, racing level.

I think one only needs to look at what happened with Fastsail and TASA, which were exactly what was suggested, bands of similar classes. They lasted a few years and died out when the initial wave of enthusiasm went. Logically you'd think it ought to work, but clearly it didn't.

I think the concept was good but ultimately the racing was no more satisfactory than a PY race ...

Similar craft are similar ... not the same so you have the same issues as any PY race.

I think it's class racing OR a compromise (of which there can be many flavours)
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 15 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by Old Timer


Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by sargesail

So instead let's look at what happens in Utopia when DRAGB starts up with its 'banded' Super Classes, racing level.

I think one only needs to look at what happened with Fastsail and TASA, which were exactly what was suggested, bands of similar classes. They lasted a few years and died out when the initial wave of enthusiasm went. Logically you'd think it ought to work, but clearly it didn't.

I think the concept was good but ultimately the racing was no more satisfactory than a PY race ...
Similar craft are similar ... not the same so you have the same issues as any PY race.
I think it's class racing OR a compromise (of which there can be many flavours)


But they were still travelling events - if you are going to the hassle to travel for sailing then you might as well save it for the class events- even if only a handful show twice a year.

also TASA was still PY racing AIUI.... And I'd guess so was FastSail.

My own take on category racing is that it's another compromise, but one that might work well In a local sailing club scenario- not to replace class racing, or PY racing events like the SJ series.


Edited by turnturtle - 25 Mar 15 at 1:49pm
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 15 at 2:38pm
As someone who took part in Fastsail the first event was great, a real buzz about it. Then the 2 people who had worked so hard to get it up and running took a step back (shortly before the second event at Rutland) and various class politics started to take over. 

The following events were never the same and the organisation faded to obscurity before quietly passing on.
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Old Timer View Drop Down
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Posts: 370 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 15 at 4:45pm
Originally posted by jeffers

As someone who took part in Fastsail the first event was great, a real buzz about it. Then the 2 people who had worked so hard to get it up and running took a step back (shortly before the second event at Rutland) and various class politics started to take over. 

The following events were never the same and the organisation faded to obscurity before quietly passing on.

Well ... as is often the case an event is typically a reflection of the enthusiasm and vision of the organising team rather than the specifics of the actual event ...

When they move on the event typically fades ... 

It is people that make clubs, events and classes not fancy sails or rigs ... the equipment is secondary to the people ...
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Mar 15 at 5:08pm
Spot on Ol' Timer. 

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