PY Numbers (again)

Sadly folks, the numbers don't lie.  The handicaps are right......based on the returns gathered........they just don't feel right.

"Banditry" really comes from the ability of top sailors to sail away from their "median" fleet performance.  So it isn't surprising that a boat with a recent influx of good sailors, a great circuit, and recent design development recently can "outperform" like that.

Especially an over powered design on flat water - where many of the RYA returns may have come from sea-based venues....which does usually slow down the middle section of the fleet relatively more.

Of course, it is just the good sailors that garner the complaints....noone gets outraged at the bloke who finished 235th at the BM...just the sailor who won!

Does anyone know if the BM, GGP Battle of the Classes etc are used by the RYA as validation points?

BTW - well done the Phantom class.  hopefully we'll get somewhere closer to you at the battle of the classes this yr.

Charlie W

To be fair it can't be said that 980 is realistic in any but the most favourable conditions. This is more of a fleet wide inflicted personal handicap as there is no way a Phantom is as fast as a Fireball.

It could be argued that they are as fast as a Merlin on the right course, this is borne out by the results of the Barrel series in the Midlands (Phantoms go off 1030, Merlins 1005).

Jim.

I don't argue with your (or the RYA's) analysis of the statistics, or that the PY system is the best we've got. But surely when so many people from so many different places all cry 'wolf' that would lead any sensible person to at least accept the possibility that there is in fact a wolf out there.

 RE The Phantom, Its certainly beatable at our club - but we sail on a large reservoir with good breezes and long beats / broad(ish) offwind legs, so it suits asymmetrics or other kited boats quite well. The Phantoms can and do win regularly - but not exclusively, so I'd guess our return for them would be around the same as the PY.

On the other hand, we have some excellent Laser sailors, (National open winners) and they never win (unless its flat calm or nothing else survives). It strikes me that the Laser has an appalling PY - as do a couple of other big classes and maybe thats as much of a problem as the perception that some classes are bandits.

Can someone please post a link to Dan Holmans excellent chart showing his calculated Yardsticks.

I'd like to see where the Laser / Phantom / Streaker / etc lie in his theoretical model.