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    Posted: 21 May 18 at 12:33pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

 

This whole thing stinks of gravy trainers from top to bottom.... IOC, WS, RYA, Bethwaite, Laser, Neil Pryde and sad to say it, the Finn Class... all at it to get their jugs topped up.  


totally agree with you.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 18 at 12:46pm
Originally posted by Chris 249

Originally posted by mozzy

 

I'm not sure there's such a hard and fast differential between skiff and other boats. Planes upwind, planes downwind, faster than the wind downwind? It's a little murky. 

It's interesting to get your inside viewpoint. I was using the example of what happens down here, where the difference was very clear for eons, and is generally still pretty clear in most cases. No one here would confuse a 505 or Sharpie with a 12 Foot Skiff or an 18. And the evidence is clear that most people from the areas where the traditional Skiff classes don't work do NOT aspire to skiffs; the "aspirational" class is generally the fast dinghies (and by that I mean ones which had no shared heritage with the Skiff classes hers).

For me, it's not about skiff versus dinghy and it's not about 'aspiring'. It's more about asymmetric / symmetric / monosail and how relate-able they are to the sailing you do. 

I don't view the 200 being any more distant from the 49er as I do 470 from the GP14. 

I'm in complete agreement that skiffs shouldn't replace traditional symmetric boats. But I think when you take in to account assymetric classes the 49er and FX are actually quite relate-able to large proportion of amateur sailing in the UK. 

Originally posted by Chris 249

.
While it's an interesting point about the 200 being an accessible way to sail assys, to a large extent such classes are only really popular in just one country in the entire world. Since you won't find a similar class in the USA, for example, there are 600+ centreboard monos with symmetrical kites (420s, Lightnings, Buccaneers etc) and only 80 with assys (9ers and Int 14s). 

I'm sure RS tried to market the 200 and 400 abroad, but with little success. Other countries seem not to accept two person hiking boats, it's just a no go. I think it's a shame because for large fleet events, it's a nice way to race. Asymmetric 'sports boats' seem to get this and they are wide spread. 
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 18 at 1:07pm
Originally posted by Oli

in all honesty i don't give a monkeys about what they select as it has almost zero correlation to what i do at the weekend, which is to either sail with my family or friends in various boats from picos to rs800's in a few short races for fun.

just wish theyd be honest with the whole process and call it for what it is, a pay day and nothing to do with grassroots

yep - can't fault that  LOL
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 18 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by mozzy

 

I'm sure RS tried to market the 200 and 400 abroad, but with little success. Other countries seem not to accept two person hiking boats, it's just a no go. I think it's a shame because for large fleet events, it's a nice way to race. Asymmetric 'sports boats' seem to get this and they are wide spread. 

yep - the RS500 is quite popular I believe in the Netherlands, Czech Republic and a few other places.... weird really, it's a diabolical boat compared to the 2 and the 4!
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 18 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by turnturtle


Originally posted by mozzy

 
I'm sure RS tried to market the 200 and 400 abroad, but with little success. Other countries seem not to accept two person hiking boats, it's just a no go. I think it's a shame because for large fleet events, it's a nice way to race. Asymmetric 'sports boats' seem to get this and they are wide spread. 

yep - the RS500 is quite popular I believe in the Netherlands, Czech Republic and a few other places.... weird really, it's a diabolical boat compared to the 2 and the 4!


I used to think the RS500 was the worse boat they made.. but back then I hadn't sailed that 200 which really is a dog. They had a right period of making crap.. 200 300, 500 600 single handedly marginalising the entire sport. Makes you wonder how they ever build boats like the 400, and the 800 which are nice rides.

If you want verification of that you have only to look how well the Aeros are doing in overseas markets.

Edited by iGRF - 21 May 18 at 2:00pm
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 18 at 2:15pm
200 300, 500 600 single handedly marginalising the entire sport.

of that list, 3 would be in my top ten dinghies of all time....  weird huh?
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Posts: 2965 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Jack Sparrow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 18 at 2:32pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

200 300, 500 600 single handedly marginalising the entire sport.

of that list, 3 would be in my top ten dinghies of all time....  weird huh?

not weird, ...just enlightening
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 18 at 2:39pm
well to enlighten further:

200 - because it's was a great boat to sail straight after university, and remains to be so.  This keeps a core demographic of sailors sailing when they'd otherwise drift off into other pastimes.  They were also a piece of piss to come into from a mainly a traditional spinnaker background, and I'd imagine the current ex-29er young adults find it even easier than I/we did with their skills base so much more in tune than ours were from shagged out Larks, 420s and Laser IIs 

300 - hands down one of the best singlehanders ever created.  If only....  

600 - personal one here, but kept me sailing when I needed it most- and remains an excellent boat to teach some better techniques to bored mid fleet laser sailors, and not just wiring techniques.  It keeps getting fresh blood in waves of resurgence... this is nice to see.

7 other spots to fill in the gaps.... but I'll keep those to myself.  LOL


Edited by turnturtle - 21 May 18 at 2:41pm
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 2547 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 18 at 4:15pm
Originally posted by mozzy

 

I'm sure RS tried to market the 200 and 400 abroad, but with little success. Other countries seem not to accept two person hiking boats, it's just a no go. I think it's a shame because for large fleet events, it's a nice way to race. Asymmetric 'sports boats' seem to get this and they are wide spread. 

You need to open your eyes, there are thousands of Snipes all over the place and many many Tasar’s in Aus, Japan and North America. 
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 May 18 at 4:43pm
Originally posted by turnturtle

200 300, 500 600 single handedly marginalising the entire sport.</span>

of that list, 3 would be in my top ten dinghies of all time....  weird huh?</span>


One word.. Freshwater

They wouldn't be if you had to sail on the sea in them.

That 600? Guy Farrant ex European champ in some dinghy or other, son of World Champ 505 , couldn't wait to ditch it.

Roger Tushingham, not long since fresh from an FD Olympic campaign and I quote, "got in it couldn't make it go, got out."

Now if these Guys can't, who can, other than ex squaddie pondy kids.. no way to promote a sport.. all academic now, you can buy them for 1500 quid with foils I nearly did this winter, just to get my hands on the foils.

When you had them you swam, and then you swam some more, but you were thinking, yeah but these are cool boats cos you have to be really good to use them and one day maybe..

Crap marketing psychology.. used to use it all the time in the 80's and 90's and look what it did for windsurfing.

Edited by iGRF - 21 May 18 at 4:49pm
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