What classes will survive ?

Getafix, the current designs aren't necessarily "outdated" apart from in a
fairly narrow way to do with their technical design. And from that angle,
the 29er etc are also outdated, and slow.

And what is the problem if they were outdated? Some things get old and
need replacing, but not everything does. Sailing dinghies are just toys.
They are not fighter jets, or medical equipment, or ambulances, or
commuter trains. They get used to go around a course a few times on the
weekend. There's no functional reason to make them newer and faster if
people get fun from them as they are, and there's not really evidence that
most people find that faster boats are more fun.

Just as in so many sports (fly fishing, target shooting, bike riding, rowing,
air racing, most car racing, surfing, etc etc) most people choose to use
"less efficient" gear. Who has the right to tell them that they are doing it
wrong? Lots of top sailors (ie hot 18 Foot Skiff sailors) also like slow gear.

There's no place in the world where most people, including most of the
really committed and expert sailors, sail modern high-speed boats. I can
find just 3 clubs around here that sail mainly fast boats and have strong
fleets, and they support their fleets from gambling and liquor funds. If
"outdated" boats were bad, fast boat clubs would dominate, but it doesn't
happen.

The submissions from many of the small/poor countries about ISAF and
Olympic classes normally support cheaper, older boats that are arguably
better for their emerging sailing scene. Surely those countries know what
they need and want better than we do. If we do not listen to their wishes,
why should they support sailing?

There's a number of intersting points being raised.  Technical development does not necessarily mean more speed.  My NS is a modern, hi-tech design but it is not particuarly fast, when compared to an MPS or a I14, but it is fast for its ease of sailing.  In fact the hull is the same length and width as an I14, but it carries exactly haly the (white) sail area, and no kite, so it is aimed fairly and squarley at a mainstream, amateur, sector of the market.  It is no co-incidence that there are more NS14s than I14s - they are considerably cheaper and easier to sail.  Boats are expensive, even cheap ones.  Fancy kit and technology may increase boat speed by 1%, but the vast majority will not pay for it if it adds 10% to the cost of the boat or makes the boat 10% harder to sail.

Originally posted by MerlinMags Why don't we put all our efforts into getting more people interested in sailing? Then there would be enough demand for every class we've got, plus a few more. Everyone's a winner! Take a newbie sailing this weekend...(it's a great excuse for not winning)

I take newbies sailing most weekends.  Some stick with it, some not.  Some are totally bewildered by the huge variety of boats on the market and the RYA level 2 syllabus gives no hint as to how to choose a class that will suit you.

Without a doubt many of these beginners should be persuaded to try lots of different boats, or to look at what is being sailed at a club they may consider joining, but it would also be a good idea if the courses they attend took a small amount of time to cover the important factors in choosing a boat such as their own size and weight, type of water to be sailed on (inland, river or sea) and whether or not they have aspirations to race or cruise.

Many of the bigger boat builders have centres where potential purchasers can try before they buy, and club open days also offer great sampling opportunities.  I wonder if there could also be a call for the RYA to have regional centres (perhaps within the larger clubs?)with a variety of classes of boats available to be sampled/hired by newbies clutching their level 2 certificates?  This would take the emphasis away from the commercial drive of the manufacturers own selling site and perhaps even give smaller boatbuilders or even class associations an opportunity to showcase their craft?  The need for a level 2 cert would also give a greater incentive for people to take a well structured course.

For my part, I always include an informal chat about boat choice as part of a level 2, perhaps over lunch or a tea break, simply because the best reward I can get as an instructor is to see my pupils carry on with what they have learned on their course.

Originally posted by Chris 249 Getafix, the current designs aren't necessarily "outdated" apart from in a fairly narrow way to do with their technical design. And from that angle, the 29er etc are also outdated, and slow. - 29er or 49er is a heck of a lot less "outdated" than the Finn, Star or Yngling.... And what is the problem if they were outdated? Some things get old and need replacing, but not everything does. Sailing dinghies are just toys. They are not fighter jets, or medical equipment, or ambulances, or commuter trains. They get used to go around a course a few times on the weekend. There's no functional reason to make them newer and faster if people get fun from them as they are, and there's not really evidence that most people find that faster boats are more fun. - agree that speed and fun aren't linked that closely, but when the point of the game is to get round the course as quick as possible, and have fun, then surely embracing technical advances that facilitate that isn't bad?  if you have fun racing an Ent for example, good on you I say, but you wouldn't hold up the Ent as the bleeding edge of dinghy sailboat design would you? Just as in so many sports (fly fishing, target shooting, bike riding, rowing, air racing, most car racing, surfing, etc etc) most people choose to use "less efficient" gear. Who has the right to tell them that they are doing it wrong? Lots of top sailors (ie hot 18 Foot Skiff sailors) also like slow gear. - so given the choice you'd use cheap, low tech plain bearing blocks on your mainsheet, not ball-bearing (carbo) ones?  why bother with epoxy, FRP or carbon fibre when we've got GRP and polyvynlester resin..... There's no place in the world where most people, including most of the really committed and expert sailors, sail modern high-speed boats. I can find just 3 clubs around here that sail mainly fast boats and have strong fleets, and they support their fleets from gambling and liquor funds. If "outdated" boats were bad, fast boat clubs would dominate, but it doesn't happen. - I don't think Clubs, anymore than big builders, are going to shoot themselves in the foot by only allowing fast, modern designs, and I think a good spread of classes means a good spread of ages, shapes and abilities and there's nothing wrong with that.... but my point was about some clubs and nationally organised 'training and development' programs that help continue these old classes against what I believe, would be 'death by market forces' in any other circumstance, if you don't like what the club wants you to sail, choose another club, there's plenty out there, but there's only one RYA program for yoof sailors.... The submissions from many of the small/poor countries about ISAF and Olympic classes normally support cheaper, older boats that are arguably better for their emerging sailing scene. Surely those countries know what they need and want better than we do. If we do not listen to their wishes, why should they support sailing? - personally I believe the ISAF spend a lot more time having expense lunches and  listening to entrenched opinion from existing classes <with very effective lobbying by the Finn, Star fraternity in particular> and very little time listening to what any countries tell them, or even their own technical committee for flips-sake!

Rick,

On a personal level I'd agree with your comments, but there are people who dont subscribe to those views. For instance I go mountain biking with work colleagues a couple of times a year, and being a self-confessed adrenaline junkie I love the downhill stuff, full chat, bid drops love it. But some of my colleague gingerly work their way downhill with the brakes on all the way because they are control freaks, and once they reach a speed where they arn't in control they back off. These same wierd creatures then actively enjoy the physical effort in cycling back up the hill, whereas I would prefer a cable car !