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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: R Speculation
    Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 2:24pm
Whilst noting the don't design by forum notice, I would avoid the daggerboard.  My main critism of modern classes is that assymetrics, daggerboards and trapezes have moved racing away from crappy little pits of water.  

Given that there are more crappy bits of water, such as rivers and gravel pits, than big open waters, and that said crappy bits of water tend to have good club atmosphere created by a sense of shared adversity, whereas the big open water clubs have the atmosphere of a sports centre.

My observation is that sailors at the crappy clubs, sailing beat and running boats tend to stick with the sport for a lifetime, whereas the trapeze/assymetric brigade sailing on their own on big stretches of water, enjoy the thrill for a year or two before moving on to the next thing.

RS and the likes would be better designing beat and running, sit out boats with a shallow water capability, interestingly the hot classes of the moment, the Solo and the Merlin, both designed shortly after the Ark, fit these criterea.
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iGRF View Drop Down
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Posts: 6499 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iGRF Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 2:54pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

Whilst noting the don't design by forum notice, I would avoid the daggerboard.  My main critism of modern classes is that assymetrics, daggerboards and trapezes have moved racing away from crappy little pits of water.  
Given that there are more crappy bits of water, such as rivers and gravel pits, than big open waters, and that said crappy bits of water tend to have good club atmosphere created by a sense of shared adversity, whereas the big open water clubs have the atmosphere of a sports centre.
My observation is that sailors at the crappy clubs, sailing beat and running boats tend to stick with the sport for a lifetime, whereas the trapeze/assymetric brigade sailing on their own on big stretches of water, enjoy the thrill for a year or two before moving on to the next thing.
RS and the likes would be better designing beat and running, sit out boats with a shallow water capability, interestingly the hot classes of the moment, the Solo and the Merlin, both designed shortly after the Ark, fit these criterea.

This.
The one thing that the Solo is enticing me with at the moment, is its centreboard (and it's small sail for the winter) I can't count the number of times I've run aground in that bloody mud pit, but I totally agree that the friendly camaraderie that exists in small clubs like the Redoubt, goes on and on and inland water certainly attracts more folk than sea or big water high performance sailing.

Edited by iGRF - 25 Oct 13 at 2:55pm
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L123456 View Drop Down
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Posts: 500 		Post Options Post Options   Quote L123456 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 3:04pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

Whilst noting the don't design by forum notice, I would avoid the daggerboard.  My main critism of modern classes is that assymetrics, daggerboards and trapezes have moved racing away from crappy little pits of water.  

Well the Laser has a daggerboard and seems to do well on restricted water ...

Originally posted by davidyacht

My observation is that sailors at the crappy clubs, sailing beat and running boats tend to stick with the sport for a lifetime, whereas the trapeze/assymetric brigade sailing on their own on big stretches of water, enjoy the thrill for a year or two before moving on to the next thing.

Well I don't see how the anyone would acquire those skills then give up  ....

Sea clubs are just a loyal & active as restricted waters ... don't start trying to make some sort of divide that does not exist.


Edited by L123456 - 25 Oct 13 at 3:06pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 3:31pm
I think there is a different force at work here. Sea based clubs usually have more extreme conditions - generally higher winds, tides, waves, traffic etc and therefore more intimidating. As age and fitness, realisation of mortality take hold its harder to keep sailing at such destinations. Doesn't mean lots of us don't do it, but generally I suspect people probably drop out of dinghies a bit earlier the more challenging the conditions especially if they are only average sailors. 

Dagger boards are fine provided there is decent boom height. Much simpler, lighter and easy to replace. 
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L123456 View Drop Down
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Posts: 500 		Post Options Post Options   Quote L123456 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 3:47pm
Anyway; the boat looks a bit like a cross between a vaero and 700.

Looks like an RS product a mile off.

Standard vang, centre main, mast looks well forward and there seems to be a lot of boat ahead of the cockpit. Round pole carbon spars, not a profiled mast.

Quite angular in design.
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 4:35pm
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by iGRF

Is anyone else irritated by the fact yellowwelly got up at five in the morning to tell us he's seen a photograph and we haven't nah nah na nah na.?

Don't worry, next week he'll be telling us he's bought one and Solos are just past it...

highly unlikely... buying one of these might fit more with my windsurfing quiver (and put to bed the light wind/big kit issues), but I can't see it offering any class racing at my club for the foreseeable future.... so Solos will still have their place, for me at least.
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 5:31pm
and... the weird posting times are due to infrequent wifi access on holiday.  Currently sitting on the balcony over looking the surf at Santa Monica - there's a F2 cross shore breeze.  It wouldn't be enough to windsurf, but if a nice lightweight, simple singlehanded dinghy could be carried down to the water's edge without initiating a hernia, then it would be a good laugh out there today.

The questions I have about this boat are:

- is the trolley optional (can it be carried from roof to water by one bloke)

rig:

- length of mast/boom
- carbon content of mast
- IMCS of mast
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iitick View Drop Down
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Joined: 09 Sep 13
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Posts: 392 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 5:45pm
Santa bliddy Monica? It's persuading down in Dribbleshire. How dare you.
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Posts: 997 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 5:47pm
I'd be really suprised if it were poss /intended to sling under one's arm.
A correctly engineered (?) unstayed dinghy mast will be an order of magnitude stiffer than a winsdurf mast of equivalent length, with a very different distribution of stiffness, so IMCS is not really applicable.
Carbon content is a funny one - never worked out in w/surf masts if a 10% carbon mast was actually (by volume) say 10% carbon, say 40% glass 50% resin, or the 10% part referred to the percentage of the fibers that were carbon ass opposed to glass - in the above instance 20% carbon (1/5 of the fibres carbon)
I guess 100% carbonmasts are, even with posh prepreg, only up to 65% carbon as the rest is resin. Hmm
As afr as I know very few dinghy masts in carbon have fibre content that is anything other than carbon - with exception of stuff like RS800 spinnaker pole which I believe is glass witha  cosmetic carbon wrap.
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Oct 13 at 7:11pm
Pretty sure the Hoot early publicity had a woman carrying the hull like a surfboard- attach wings, foils and rig on the beach...
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