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    Posted: 30 Sep 11 at 4:40pm
Originally posted by JimC

> This would give a measure of the quality of racing in fleets.

Not really a useful one though.
Different boats demand different skills. The Endeavour only tests skills in medium paced ploddy boats because that's what its sailed in.


The multiple endeavour winners seem to transfer their skills across a fair range of craft. The core skills that you need to do well in a Merlin or RS400 will also be needed to win in an RS800, Skiff or whatever. The people who can transfer their skills to racing a Xenon could probably do very well in any boat. OK the trapezes etc change the game a little, and the fastest boats may be biased more towards physical fitness and agility, but if you can't race a basic boat well enough to its max, you're probably not getting the best out of a high performance boat either.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 11 at 4:44pm
Originally posted by rogue



Tickel's avoiding any accusations of bragging; unnecessarily so, there's no shame in being proud... iirc, it's one of those relationships where when something 'unjust' occurs, it affects you more than had the same thing happened to yourself personally.

I don't know the criteria Tickel- but would suggest you make contact with the association ASAP to establish if they were invited to submit a candidate.


Had a look at the Endeavour web pages, looks like 25 boats available this year, down from last year, so they will not be looking at so many 'champions'.
Still 25 boats is a very generous loan by Topper, long may it continue.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tickel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 11 at 5:27pm
How about, 24 years old, 4 times class champ in a reasonably popular single hander including this year and last year, and class champion in another single hander last year as well. I believe the class was promised a go this year.....perhaps we should buy a mirror or topper. And referring to previous posts he is not a 'professional'

Anyway I am sorry to sound so grumpy....I'll shut up now.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tickel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 11 at 5:37pm
Actually.....one more thing....if it is based on Nationals turnout perhaps we should flood the event with derelict boats and uncompetitive helms. And another thing, perhaps the number of boats turning up for the Nationals relative to the numbers built over the years could be a better guide to enthusiasm within the class.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 11 at 6:45pm
Originally posted by tickel

How about, 24 years old, 4 times class champ in a reasonably popular single hander including this year and last year, and class champion in another single hander last year as well. I believe the class was promised a go this year.....perhaps we should buy a mirror or topper. And referring to previous posts he is not a 'professional'

Anyway I am sorry to sound so grumpy....I'll shut up now.


I read into this that you regard the Endeavour as something of high standing and something you respect. It can't be perfect, and it must be tough to select the classes. Particularly if not so many boats are available this year.
Maybe they could exclude classes that consistently 'qualify' but never get in the top half, maybe try to rotate the invites around what we might call the second division classes?

To look at it another way, a sailor who has won his class 4 times is a big fish in a small pond, time to move into a class that gets an Endeavour invite?

Either that, or someone's got to buy a bigger fleet of Xenons!

Unless the class did indeed get an invite and chose not to/failed to pass it on?
(I have no reason to suspect this, just stating the possibility, I don't even know which class we are alluding to!)

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Post Options Post Options   Quote timeintheboat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 11 at 6:56pm
I have to say the Xenon has been on and off my list of possibles. As a no maintenance, easy to step into boat. But having always sailed "mainstream" boats they still seem to get derided somewhat. As a general purpose, low skill level three sailerl,no maintenance boat, what exactly is wrong with them for club sailing?
Like some other things - sailing is more enjoyable when you do it with someone else
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 11 at 7:00pm
I'm pretty sure the class wasn't invited - looking at the list, it consists of classes which have been regulars in the 30 (or often 50) club for many years, or up and coming boats, like some of the RS classes. Looks like a reasonable list to me, and the class in question (along with several others who would like a go) will need to show greater consistency in numbers before being on any short list, I'd think.
 
Don't forget, the Endeavour is a private affair, like the America's cup, rather than a points based event like the world match racing champs.   
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 11 at 7:11pm
Originally posted by timeintheboat

I have to say the Xenon has been on and off my list of possibles. As a no maintenance, easy to step into boat. But having always sailed "mainstream" boats they still seem to get derided somewhat. As a general purpose, low skill level three sailerl,no maintenance boat, what exactly is wrong with them for club sailing?


If you want half decent club racing, you would in my opinion, do better to buy a secondhand boat that some comparable people race at your club.
A new Xenon costs what? They probably de-value just as fast as say a RS200 of similar price, even allowing for a bit of paid-for maintenance on a GRP boat.
If you do feel like broadening your horizons, an active class with a class association and some open meetings to go to can give you a lot. Particularly a class that has coaching.
Nothing I'm aware of wrong with it as a boat, but you don't just buy a boat, you buy into a class, if you want to join in. The Xenon has never really been promoted as a class, whereas the RS Vision has to some extent, and gives some people good boat-on-boat racing as well as a lot of fun and learning.

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Ruscoe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 11 at 8:45pm
I don't understand the argument here, if there are only 25 boats available then there are only 25 boats available.  What classes are missing that have consistently 30+ nationals attendances? (excluding the junior classes)  Interesting no Solo (cant remember seeing them enter for a while or Laser)

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Post Options Post Options   Quote I luv Wight Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Sep 11 at 10:52pm
I was invited once ( out of 7 possible national wins ) but only at the last minute because someone dropped out - and it was too late for me to arrange, so I couldn't go.

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