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Woodburner View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodburner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Boat Performance Index
    Posted: 24 Mar 15 at 9:23am
I always found the term 'National Champion' a bit lame if the event had less than 100 competitors from all parts of the country, similarly if a National Series didn't have events in all regions with competitors from those regions competing in the others. OK maybe more easily achieved with car topable sailboards, but nonetheless sailboats can and do travel, I've seen them littering up the motorways.

So if magic wands were in order and it were down to me, I'd have the D.R.A. National Series, you'd dial into a website giving your boat details, crew weight and experience, it would spit out your handicap and the group you were entered in and a list of participating venues with dates. Some existing events nominated and others designed and organised for purpose.
Each group would then spit out a series champion. - simples.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 15 at 10:16am
Originally posted by Woodburner

I always found the term 'National Champion' a bit lame if the event had less than 100 competitors from all parts of the country, 

If you tale that view then in 2014 there would be only 2 national champions in adult classes and in a typical year none ... Confused

http://www.yachtsandyachting.com/class/attendance.aspx

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Post Options Post Options   Quote Oli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 15 at 10:22am
If any one fancies a summer handicap event we run a round the islands race for dinghies, cats and cruisers.  It is an open event on our club card  and would be great to see more visitors come along.  its a figure eight course round Osea and Northey so only about 8 miles which can take 45 mins or 3 hours weather depending.  The  cruisers sail just round Osea and the Slow fleet sail round Northey.

perhaps a round the islands handicap series with the mersea and sheppy as part of the series could be constructed by those that know how to?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 15 at 10:39am
Slightly off topic, however there is (In my opinion) only one summer handicap race.....The Lord Birkett.  If that is not a celebration of the British Handicap racing dinghy scene, then I don't know what is!   

I really, really urge everyone to at least once in their life do this event.  You can usually have a fair stab at what class is in with a shout of winning judging by the conditions.  However that matters not to me!  Its just a brilliant weekend, sailing in what I consider to be the most beautiful part of the country.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote ChrisI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 15 at 10:52am
"Slightly off topic, however there is (In my opinion) only one summer handicap race.....The Lord Birkett. If that is not a celebration of the British Handicap racing dinghy scene, then I don't know what is!"

+1

July 4/5 this year....looking forward to it again!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 15 at 12:04pm
One year I'll do the Birkett, probably when the kids have left home, the way it is going.

Chris, I understand that cycling has recognized disciplines and the like - it was just the "One National Champion" I was referring to in that post. I could as easily have used athletics. Is dinghy sailing like the long jump, say, and sailing as a whole like athletics - so dinghies the long jump, yachts the shot put, windsurfing the 400m, or is each dinghy like an athletics event?

If the former, then we don't have a champ. If the latter, then we have a champ for each disipline, just like athletics does.

Anyway, not sure why I'm arguing against the oddity of National Champions. For me, being Class Champion is far more sensible. Just takes a change of a word and a huge change in mind set. National Champions would then come from a revamped National Classes list and from the International classes, if they have a big enough showing in the UK. Or maybe simply from classes that have a 5 year rolling average of 50+ at the Nationals.

So, I am Minisail Class Champion, not Minisail National Champion, which clearly gives far too much kudos to such a small event.

The Y&Y tables would need to be split, of course. In fact, I could see Y&Y being the leader in this change of outlook. Events would need to brand themselves Class Championships, not National, and it would take some Y&Y editing of events publicity to make this happen!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 15 at 12:31pm
I never mentioned "one national champion". Indeed, I specifically said there could be multiple national chamnionships based upon a minim entry requirement (as an example). With, as you suggest, smaller classes having Class champions.

But you are still thinking along tribalism if class lines. The open champion could've from any class, because it is an open event. Okay, you *may* chose to have a singlehander and two champion (much like singles and doubles tennis).

Someone will now complain that the location or weather will influence the outcome. I'll provide the counter argument, if needed, when I have access to more than a phone.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JohnJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 15 at 12:36pm
Originally posted by Rupert

One year I'll do the Birkett, probably when the kids have left home, the way it is going.

Chris, I understand that cycling has recognized disciplines and the like - it was just the "One National Champion" I was referring to in that post. I could as easily have used athletics. Is dinghy sailing like the long jump, say, and sailing as a whole like athletics - so dinghies the long jump, yachts the shot put, windsurfing the 400m, or is each dinghy like an athletics event?

If the former, then we don't have a champ. If the latter, then we have a champ for each disipline, just like athletics does.

Anyway, not sure why I'm arguing against the oddity of National Champions. For me, being Class Champion is far more sensible. Just takes a change of a word and a huge change in mind set. National Champions would then come from a revamped National Classes list and from the International classes, if they have a big enough showing in the UK. Or maybe simply from classes that have a 5 year rolling average of 50+ at the Nationals.

So, I am Minisail Class Champion, not Minisail National Champion, which clearly gives far too much kudos to such a small event.

The Y&Y tables would need to be split, of course. In fact, I could see Y&Y being the leader in this change of outlook. Events would need to brand themselves Class Championships, not National, and it would take some Y&Y editing of events publicity to make this happen!

Thinking of records, and kudos. Say your cut off point is 50 boats for the Class/National divide. One year say 2014 Joe Bloggs is 'Class Champion' because there is only 49 boats attending, 2015 John Smith wins and because there is 60 boats present he is 'National Champion' (maybe there is a few years in between but still.....) does John Smith deserve more kudos than Joe Bloggs?

I have spent allot of time looking back over results for my class the past few years and the top 10 - 15 is usually a who's who of sail makers/rope company/builders jockeys with a handful of very good 'amateurs'. It doesn't really change that much. The added numbers usually come from the upper mid fleet down to the tail enders. Most of which are there for a good week of sailing and to try and better them selves and enjoy the atmosphere. Maybe get a pop at the Bronze/Silver Fleet or a Spot Prize. 

Throughout a 10 race Nationals, after about R3 you end up with lots of little races going on.

In the example above maybe the top 10 were the same peeps just in a different order.
The quality is the same at the top, therefore whyc is one a Nationals Champ, the other a Class Champ?

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Rupert View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 15 at 12:41pm
yup, JJ, I agree, to an extent. That is why National Classes might work better. A 5 year average as suggested would also work, so you only lose it if you are fading, not because of a blip.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodburner Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Mar 15 at 2:43pm
Well afaik there are only 11 National Classes adopted or allegedly administered by the RYA, they haven't taken a new one on in donkeys years, by my guess the Scorpion is the youngest but I could be wrong they're mostly before even my windsurfing time.

So a body that administered all the new ones, or those not managed by their own SMOD builders could be justified.

RYA Classes.


ALBACORE
The Albacore is a chineless hull with a swept spreader rig which supports a mainsail and headsail. As well as being popular in the UK, is actively sailing in both the US and Canada.
EIGHTEEN
The Eighteen came about after a design competition launched by the RYA and Yachting World. The Eighteen allows three crew and a single trapeze to control the mainsail, headsail and spinnaker.
FIREFLY
The Firefly was designed by Uffa Fox over 60 years ago. It is a popular fleet racing boat but has also been used for both match and team racing, being used twice at the ISAF Team Racing Worlds.
HORNET
The Hornet is a double handed dinghy which carries a symmetric spinnaker as well as a single trapeze for the crew. Predominantly built from wood, the class have recently appointed a new GRP builder.
MERLIN-ROCKET
The Merlin-Rocket is a true open design where limited hull controls have allowed for a number of designers to release their designs. A development class with few limitations.
REDWING
The Redwing is the oldest of the RYA National Classes and was designed by Uffa Fox in 1937. Still actively sailed it is distinctive in its bright red sails.
SCORPION
The Scorpion is a hard-chined planing hull which carries a mainsail, headsail and symmetric spinnaker. It was adopted by the RYA as a National Class in 1967.
SOLO
The Solo is a light, double chined hull which carries a stayed rig supporting a fully battened mainsail. Designed by Jack holt in 1956.
SONATA
The Sonata is a popular one design keelboat with over 400 built. It is bermudan rigged with a symmetric spinnaker. Designed by David Thomas in 1975.
SQUIB
The Squib is a keelboat which was adopted by the RYA as a National Class in 1972. Sailed with a mainsail, headsail and spinnaker, it is also distinctive for its bright red coloured sails.
SWALLOW
The Swallow is an ex-Olympic Class which was originally designed in 1946 by Tom Thornycroft. The boat has kept its originaly design whilst the construction has been upgraded to GRP.
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