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Null View Drop Down
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    Posted: 04 Feb 15 at 10:26am
Originally posted by JimC

Originally posted by Null

unless the media support new classes


Why should it be the business of the media to support new classes? The job of the media is to sell media and advertising, make a living for their staff and some money for their owners, and goodness knows that's hard enough in these days.


D Zero, D one seem to have managed a certain amount of traction without being from RS, and if I'm the only person from my club who reads YY or posts on this forum somehow the new boats seem to have reached the consciousness of sailors in general just as effectively as new boats seemed to 20 years ago.


Slightly unfair quote there Jim, i never suggested that it was the 'Business' of the media.  More that the media should be behind and support new classes.  I fully understand and have previously typed that they need to give something to write about.  

The Devoti product, is something i know a thing or two about.  I wont go into on this forum my thoughts on how the D1 was treated by many commercial based media platforms.  However Its very difficult for the manufacturer and dealers to reach out to the general sailing community.  Its a case of knocking on doors the old fashion way.  Not to mention clubs like Chew not allowing demo days for one manufacturer and then allowing another.  Now i understand that it takes hard work and commitment to launch a new product, hell i have been involved with product launches at work so i am aware how hard it is with even £multi Million budgets.  But the fact still remains without the ability to reach out to club membership new products will struggle.  Further more without the ability to talk and understand other sailors the sport is going to continue to decline.  How are clubs which are struggling with particular membership demographic going to understand what a wonderful Job a club 300 miles away did if no one is writing about it.  We need more Dougals, professional, amateur or otherwise.  But to support them we need a proper media platform. 

It may be easier now thanks to social media, to spread the word.  But the fact remains, we as a sport are poorly served.  If we do not embrace new product and shout about its pitfalls and its virtues i am dinghy sailing will revert back to its routes of a eccentric sport for toffs
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Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 15 at 10:50am
I like, 'eccentric sport for toffs', well put!  Did I notice a bit of a no girls in the sport complaint creeping in to this? There is one class that caters for the average weight fit girl...Byte, plenty of girls there I assure you. Sorry fat boys......
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Null View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 15 at 10:57am
Originally posted by Dougaldog

Null,



There is a really good piece of advice, "be careful what you wish for". Wanting media focus 'now' can only provide the thinnest of stories, for the simple reason that none of the new boats have yet shown that they can create and then successfully occupy a niche. You've not even had a Nationals yet, so what is there for a journalist to write about. Now, as it looks as though I'm the PRO for your Nationals in May, I'll have a grandstand view of how the class is developing. But with yet more new classes expected to be hitting the water soon, what I will write is still a long way from being clear. But I can assure you of this - I will be writing about these boats when there is something to say!

D
]
DD,
I hope my posts have not come across as a class moaning about media input.  Its not how i meant them to and i apologise if they have.  My point comes from someone who has spent the last couple of years helping new classes cement some footings into the UK market.  Therefore with more understanding then most as to how difficult it is to touch the sailing public.  Like i said to you before, I'm not searching for media attention more question our ability to reach the community.  Something which as someone in the media (a Journalist) must be really difficult for you.  Like i said before you have published a historic book around the Merlin Rocket.  I would LOVE to read a copy, but i knew nothing about it.  So if someone within the industry media cant reach out and touch the sailing community how can amateurs in a class association.

So just to stress I am not searching for media attention for my chosen class.  We have nothing to report that would warrant an article as yet.  But we do have big plans, plans which i believe significantly differentiate us from other classes.  So i guess in a few years we can hopefully talk about them retrospectively??  but until then we will keep trying our own way to contact people and spread the word...
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 15 at 11:25am
Originally posted by Null


Therein lies a problem Dougal, unless the media support new classes the solo, supernova, ok have no new competition.  So more articles about classes which have deep roots and the ability to reach sailing clubs around the country theoretically strengthen their position.  Like I said earlier, there is no vehicle for new classes outside of rs to promote themselves.

I agree with you about boat testing, but to make it fair there needs to be a panel of testers from different demographic groups using the boats over a few months.   Not 45minutes sailing in champaign conditions by the soon to be class manager.   Wink  There is simply a huge raft of material just waiting to be written as a class guide/long term boat test.   Sadly I fear one honest write up in this somewhat backward industry would limit the ability to long term test boats from the same manufacturer in the future.


So how does this relate to changes in sailing demographics.  Well how can people communicate to women sailors currently? How do we relay that the number of female sailors or double handed boats are in decline?  How do we incentivise people to come back?  When in current form we don't have that communication vehicle.  I am 99.9% sure I am the only person that's read your articles or even heard of you at my sailing club and 100% sure I am the only one that knows you are writing a new merlin book.   Which is awful shame, but actually a symptom of people not knowing where to look.  This is simply not right, clubs need your articles to help promote change.  The grass routes are where the real power lies, sowing seeds of doubt and making small changes which grow into larger changes across the sailing club networks.  Sadly unless someone landed on the Y&Y landing page at exactly the 10hr window it was in the headlines it is lost in time for them forever....

Agree with a hell of a lot of that.

However, I'd ask why we should anyone support competition to established disciplines in a sport. You're a cyclist - bet you don't pick up a copy of a typical sporting/racing cycling mag and see them promoting a new discipline/ruleset/class called the Cicyle, or the Bicycle 2.0, or a streamlined 'bent - they just promote the normal sort of UCI/CTT sort of bike.

I'm not convinced that's the best way to go, but it does (IMHO) underline that sailing cannot be seen to be unfriendly towards new types gear - in fact it's unusually welcoming to new types of gear compared to other sports. The occasional claim that we need new classes just doesn't seem to wash with the fact that dinghy sailing in a place like Australia, where new classes are almost unknown, appears to be doing better than sailing just about anywhere else.

Yes, there is a price to be paid when innovation isn't encouraged, but arguably that price may be less than the price we pay for fragmentation. A friend is manager of a national media outlet and top 4 or so in the world in a Recognised Class. When I asked her about the mass media coverage of sailing she (like many others before her) pointed out that there was no way she could justify anyone reporting on the vast majority of classes, since the sport was so fragmented.

While I'm from Oz, I can only echo your comments about the problems of doing serious boat tests. One of the last couple of articles I wrote as a part-timer resulted in a major advertiser pulling their ads for an entire year, and given the fact that we have a different advertising approach down here (fewer ads but more expensive ones) it was a significant issue for the mag. The silly thing was that the article I wrote on an 'opposition' brand was not in any way critical of the product put out by the company that pulled its ads. Even worse than that was that I only found out they'd pulled the ads after the same company had told me how their aim was just to promote cat sailing as a discipline rather than just promoting individual Hobie catamaran classes.

IMHO, as noted earlier, what we really need is 'vertical' and 'horizontal' integration, as done by RS, Bethwaite, Hobie, Laser etc. We can't ignore the need to promote new classes but we can't keep fragmenting them, so maybe the best solution is to integrate them via manufacturer, Formula class or something similar. And I might add that while fragmentation may work in the UK's geography it tends to fail elsewhere, and with the greatest respect to the excellent Uk dinghy scene, if UK sailing gets more and more out of kilter with the rest of the world it may start hurting.

PS - on a completely different tack, it's interesting to see that the size of Sportsboat classes are coming down. One wonders whether those who have followed the shift from C 25 footers down to the new breed of 20' cabinless sportsboats may keep on moving down in size and up in convenience, and whether that could lead to a return to larger performance dinghies.

Sportsboats are fine in their way, but from other angles it looks pretty silly if a $50k 20 footer renowned for its speed finishes legs behind a $2.5k 20 footer or $5k 14 footer that has the same amount of cabin space and cruising ability. Maybe sportsboat sailors will start wondering why you'd drag lead in something you can't cruise or daysail in, and then they may shift down a size. It may not have a big impact in the UK, but if the media hype follows the advertisers it could be interesting.


Edited by Chris 249 - 04 Feb 15 at 11:40am
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JimC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 15 at 11:47am
I think the problem is that media has changed, and we have to accept that. At the moment I'm putting together a final report on the 2014 Canoe Worlds which is intended as an indefinitely surviving historical record of the event for the class website and whatever succeeds that.

I've also been trying to assemble historical event reports for the last 150 years of Canoe Racing, which has given me something of a perspective.

In the 19thC, when there were relatively few major classes, small event reports appeared in the national or regional daily press, and I've managed to get together some information from on line newspaper archives. There were also annual books written with event reports and the like in, and I've got some material from there.

After WW2 the main source that I've found seems to be books, not only Uffas's well known books, but others, which include information about races. The newspapers seemed to have rather less.

By the 1950s and 1960s we have the specialist magazines, and the National papers typically have only the bare minimum. But a day spent in Yachts and Yachtings archives (thank you very much Gael for putting up with me) gave me most of the reports I needed.

But the 2014 report is a horse of another colour. OK its recent, which is part of it, but my biggest problem is not in getting material. Its in collating material from a spectacular selection of sources, written and visual, almost all amateur written and published, and distributed quite at random. There's more source material than ever before, but boy is it fragmented. Seems to me that word has come up before in this topic...

But its this new fragmented world of amateur media we have to deal with and classes and manufacturers need to adapt to. Will the circle go round and people get fed up with amateur coverage? Thing is its cheap. It costs serious money to employ proper journalists, and people no longer want to pay serious money for their media...

But the main point is that the media we have has always been changing and will always be changing. And over the time I've been involved with classes it always has has been very hard to get the coverage you think you deserve! And when it comes to event reports, which I've been doing on and off for longer than some of you have been alive, never before has there been such an amazing selection of material. When I started doing websites, before digital photography and cheap good quality cameras, well you have no idea how hard it was just to get a selection of reasonable photos if you didn't have a budget.

Edited by JimC - 04 Feb 15 at 12:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Dougaldog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 15 at 12:03pm
Jim C,

again, spot on! This is essentially the Rupert Murdoch argument about having to pay to get the 'Times-OnLine'; who pays for the journalistic content?

More to the point, even if you did pay, what is it that you would be paying for? Another old saying, "he who pays the piper, calls the tune". I think you're with me on this one, if I thought that someone would be dictating to me just what I had to say about a boat, a builder, an event......I'd be back following your example and bending sheets of ply in the workshop rather than writing. However, precisely because you DO have a platform (and believe me Null and others, Y&Y.com is by far one of the best read and most respected platforms out there) means that there is a responsibility to treat all and everyone equally.

It just so happens that I do have some views, some quite strong ones even, on the current state of play, but these are my opinions and will therefore remain with me. Readers want to know what we see, what is happening and what we, as journalists, think this means. This is a long way from writing about what we would like the situation to be - but there is a platform for that - I do talks around the clubs, and that is a great way of expressing a view - and all the better if it sparks off a lively debate in the bar afterwards!

D
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 15 at 12:10pm
JIm i agree with much of that.  However its not that people don't want to pay.  In my opinion its that the ROI is so poor.  Like i have said umpteen times now, that's not down to poor quality Journalistic skills, its more around a lack of proper communication channels.

Perhaps its worth asking the question.  How would you communicate and spread a message to UK grass route sailing club members?

I work for one of the worlds largest media companies.  We had a message from our international president whom has a rich history in the printed press, he believes that Newspapers and the printed press are in their twilight years and as a large provider of this media source we must adapt our products and strategies to match how the world has moved on.  So taking his point of view on board and given the fact that from a Dinghy sailing perspective we have seen the end (IMO) of printed media.  How are we moving on?  Where is the strategy?  As a Sec of a dinghy class, we prepare ourselves and develop our online presence.  We have social media strategies, we support our builder and retailer.  Both of who want to advertise but need a ROI, we would welcome media content but again woudl want to make sure it was being seen.  All this kind of stuff is/should be at the front of every major classes thoughts at the moment.  Sadly, i just cant see how amature organisations can reach out and touch the community.  Not with the current tools we have in place.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 15 at 12:17pm
As far as classes are concerned I think at the moment you just have to do everything, all the time, with as many keen amateurs as possible. I don't think you can have a controlled and planned strategy any more. In many ways its easier for amateur organisations rather than more difficult, but you have got to marshall those volunteers and let them know they are appreciated, even if they don't stay on message all the time.

Edited by JimC - 04 Feb 15 at 12:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 15 at 12:18pm
Jim, that was an excellent insight into how things have been changing, thank you.

Dougal, you say that you views will stay with you, but I'd say that it is almost impossible to NOT write in such a way that one's opinions don't colour the writing to a certain extent. In fact, I'd go so far as to say it is necessary, or you simply end up with a very grey article that fails to ignite the views of others. What you shouldn't do, of course, is be selective with the facts, or twist them, to fit your viewpoint. That should be left to the daily newspapers.
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Null View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04 Feb 15 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by Dougaldog

Jim C,

ag However, precisely because you DO have a platform (and believe me Null and others, Y&Y.com is by far one of the best read and most respected platforms out there) means that there is a responsibility to treat all and everyone equally.


D

DD, i think you may of missed some of this thread....I don't need to believe you, i am aware this is the best platform. That however doesnt make it fantastically fit for purpose does it? its outdated now and simply does not reach the corners of the dinghy sailing world.  I can count on the fingers of one hand how many of my club mates actually log into this site.

So for me, if i were to want to contact the UK club dinghy sailor it seems that i need to post on their sailing club facebook page or write them a letter.  

We just need to look at some of the stats produced to know that we need to do something.  Women in sailing seems to be on the decline, clubs have memberships with huge jumps in age gaps, double handed classes are in decline.  We look at the time people have and the lifestyle of the 'Modern Family'  and say..Yes that's why.  You not what that may very well be part of the reason, there is limited things the sport can do about that.  However to me its clear that people are not engaged unless they are a hardcore dinghy open sailor.  They don't know what's going on, they are not invited to innovate, clubs find it difficult to share ideas or pool resources.  This is something that can be fixed and improved upon.  I just dont think that this website is the answer, in fact i'm not sure if websites are the answer but communication channels of some description need to be forged.  
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