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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Multi-rig racing
    Posted: 11 Mar 15 at 12:20am
Originally posted by Chris 249

It's a pretty ancient "innovation".  Big smile The very first popular racing centreboarder, the Canoes of the 19th century, ended up with multiple rigs, and according to contemporary sources the expense and hassle of such rigs was one of the things that killed the sailing canoe as a popular type.  Skiffs, of course, have used multiple rigs since the 1800s, as have Raceboard and Slalom windsurfers which were once probably the most popular racing classes ever seen in the sport of sailing..... and like the other multiple rig classes they are now much less popular partly because of the hassle and expense involved.
Would I be right in guessing that in the cases you quote, the rigs were development rigs and not one-design?  Thus you could need to upgrade your canoe or board rig every year to keep up with developments.  That would be a good reason for limited/diminishing numbers, whereas with the Laser and Aero the rigs are one-design.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 15 at 12:32am
/\
 
Yep, I think that was probably part of the issue. Still, even in a class like Lasers an extra sail and bottom section is several times what the average person spends on sport and recreation per year, and adding that to the cost of playing the game must have its downsides whe the sport is already considered to be costly and inaccessible.
 
Maybe to economise, the classes that do a lot of rig switching could have a special high-wind sail, designed and built just for the rough stuff?  That could be more durable and handle better than a small sail designed for all-round use....then again, once you do that it's hard to argue why you couldn't also have a special sail just for light winds.
 
I'm contemplating returning to a multi-rig class I love, but there's concern about the mounting costs of having to buy three sails and at least two sets of spars, and interestingly a friend who has just returned to the class is noticing what a hassle the extra gear is.
 
Just to reiterate, I'm not saying multiple rigs should be banned; ironically, because of the setup where I sail, I have to have two sizes of Laser rig although I only use one at club level, and this afternoon I'v got to arrange to get some sails for a small-rig experiment in another class.  It's more a discussion about whether the downsides and pitfalls can simply be ignored or wished away, and whether those who are against multiple rigs have a reasonable point of view.
 
 


Edited by Chris 249 - 11 Mar 15 at 12:37am
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 15 at 12:55am
Personally I like being in a club that has a place for Joe Budgetsailor, and a sport that only has time for Mr Rich is of little interest for me. That's what Yacht clubs are for.

And I have no objection to people sailing expensive boats and classes either. But some of you are coming across as if it would be a good thing to turn the cheapest classes to participate in into much more expensive ones. [extreme language omitted]. Just remember there are a lot more poor people than rich ones, especially at the moment, so if we want growth in the sport who should we target?
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Spot on, Jim c.
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 15 at 7:04am
Originally posted by JimC

Personally I like being in a club that has a place for Joe Budgetsailor, and a sport that only has time for Mr Rich is of little interest for me. That's what Yacht clubs are for.

And I have no objection to people sailing expensive boats and classes either. But some of you are coming across as if it would be a good thing to turn the cheapest classes to participate in into much more expensive ones. [extreme language omitted]. Just remember there are a lot more poor people than rich ones, especially at the moment, so if we want growth in the sport who should we target?

From a club that has far more budget concious sailors and a few 'richer' sailors I agree with the above.
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 15 at 7:06am
Originally posted by Chris 249


Originally posted by turnturtle

Joe needs to grow up then.... And join the real world.


 
If that's the real world you live in then it's lucky some of us have found a different one.


Jeez, I thought Stalinism was dead... I guess I got over the fact that some kids had nicer cricket bats than me back at school. I was just pleased to own one of my own and not have to use the school ones from the 70's with string for grip....

Perhaps anyone driving a (posh w**ker) German car should have a lower handicap too.... After all the relative splenadour in which they rock up at the sailing club must count for something right? Heated seats warming their percher up, cup holder for a caffeine drink... Cheating b**tards....

I think you'd find that anyone taking the series that seriously would only switch in extreme circumstances anyway thus chalking it up to a discard.

I do not think sailor points should carry between classes personally, and have always viewed series points as something for the more committed and consistent, so I'm anti class switching, (Zeros, aeros and Lasers are not rig switching they are class switching), but I can understand the logic for some clubs who do facilitate this, especially if it means it keeps some double handers in residency.

Are some of you actually saying you'd like a club rule prohibiting multi-boat ownership?

Edited by turnturtle - 11 Mar 15 at 8:05am
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 15 at 8:54am
Multi boat ownership... We have 7, and when the club allowed multiple boats in a series, I would swap, either for the weather, or simply on a whim. So, Firefly one race, maybe Topper in a blow, Lightning coz an open is coming up, whatever. Now it counts as different series entries, I still do it, as results were never the issue, fun was. If the same is true of the multiple rigs, then the odd discard coz the wind picked up and the 5 was going to be more fun is fine, isn't it, rather than pretending it is the same class?
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ex laser View Drop Down
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Posts: 725 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ex laser Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 15 at 8:56am
Think you've missed the point James. But knowing you I suspect you're doing it for the sake having a lively discussion
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 15 at 9:27am
Originally posted by ex laser

Think you've missed the point James.

damn right I have....

some folks think its unfair that someone chooses between classes/boats depending on the weather.

I agree, to a level anyway, and from a series points POV think they should be scored as separate entries.  I don't think a Radial has any place on a Laser class racing results card.  However if they want to sail together for the craic and then extract the individual class results, then I can see the logic of keeping the programmes aligned.

In terms of handicap racing, I don't think a punitive handicap need apply, what's the point?  Should the occasional Solo sailor be given a harsher handicap just because his regular Merlin crew is off on holiday with their family... oh do cock off. 

I wouldn't go so far as to bring affluence into the equation on this thread, I don't see its relevance.   

Frankly I'm not sure I know, nor really care, how affluent many people are at my sailing club.  I certainly wouldn't judge it by how much they choose to spend on a boat, or dare I say, 'boats' plural.  

Even the most expensive dinghy in the dinghy park could be bought with a modest monthly repayment plan - it would barely be noticeable on an equity-out deal on a 30 year mortgage, and that's money you neither earned, nor were gifted.... it's just social economics to be paid for by our grand-kids down the line.  Unless you're in negative equity, in which case, sorry mate, but what dinghy Minted Mike has is the least of your worries chum.

Who gives a sh*t really?  That's a problem with society- every one is so quick to judge each other...







Edited by turnturtle - 11 Mar 15 at 9:30am
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turnturtle View Drop Down
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Posts: 2538 		Post Options Post Options   Quote turnturtle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Mar 15 at 10:03am
Originally posted by JimC

That's what Yacht clubs are for.

another stupid reverse snobbery comment....  (although I like the bantz Jim)

Yacht Clubs - who race yachts - need crew.  And many offer 'crew membership', some even don't require membership at all and regularly provide a beer and sandwich after sailing for students, young people and those with less affluence than your average dinghy club wood botherering and pot hunting, fifty-something baby boomer.... 
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