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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RS aero
    Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 10:21pm
Upwind surely must be somewhere between 90 degrees to the wind and head to wind? Even if you are at 89 degrees you are still heading towards the wind. Admittedly not very close, but towards it all the same, therefore bearing away a bit too instigate what we normally refer to as planing in a dinghy is still heading towards the wind, and hence upwind.

Obviously though you are referring to that point when you consider that you are no longer upwind but reaching. Who knows, for one boat 5 degrees off close hauled is reaching for another is still considered upwind by some. It varies boat to boat. 420's plane upwind but it's not as close as they could go, but then it's what is the most efficient for them

Edited by maxibuddah - 31 Oct 14 at 10:25pm
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 10:32pm
Originally posted by maxibuddah

Upwind surely must be somewhere between 90 degrees to the wind and head to wind? Even if you are at 89 degrees you are still heading towards the wind.

On that basis, a competently sailed Laser will plane upwind, surely?
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iiitick View Drop Down
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Posts: 478 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 10:50pm
In this context 'up wind' must mean all boats sailing at the same close angle but some faster because they are planing. If one boat bears away a little and planes then even if it gets there quicker but wider it is not up wind.....

We had an Isometric and trap training day recently when our local RYA rep came down with 2 Vago's. The wind was pretty bouncy and I did see one of them plane upwind on a heavy gust but it had a 15 stone Javelin crew on the wire and a chit of a girl on the helm.
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 14 at 7:48am
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Originally posted by maxibuddah

Upwind surely must be somewhere between 90 degrees to the wind and head to wind? Even if you are at 89 degrees you are still heading towards the wind.

On that basis, a competently sailed Laser will plane upwind, surely?

Tom Slingsby did an interview a while back and he said in heavy winds he tends to crack off a bit and try to get the boat 'planing' upwind.

As for the smaller sail being faster than a bigger sail.... A radial is faster upwind in a blow than a full rig Laser. If it is really honking a 4.7 is probably faster than both! Offwind is a different story though. The Radial will always lose out a bit (but usually gain it and more back on the next windward leg).

I would like to see an Aero of any rig and a Fireball on a windward leg in a breeze.....  I know which boat my money is on.  Wink
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 14 at 8:37am
That was kinda my point maxi, it is completely dependant on people's perception of what upwind is.  Because theoretically reaching can make upwind headway albeit very poor vmg.  But you have to define it as heading upwind......this is where the ambiguity sets in.  
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maxibuddah View Drop Down
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Posts: 1760 		Post Options Post Options   Quote maxibuddah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 14 at 8:50am
Yeah I was being a little facetious there. There is a small band of angles that is normally considered upwind by the masses. What it is though is anyone's guess really. 10 degrees off? Too much, too little. I've seen 420's do this on the sea and I've not seen them again cos they've been so far ahead of me sticking to close to the wind, or normal upwind. For them is fine, might not work for another boat that doesn't plane upwind.
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 14 at 9:37am
I'd use the term "planing upwind" in situations where planing mode gives the best (or at least as good) Vmg.

That's certainly how I used it in the context of the Fireball which fitted the bill once we'd got to depowering weather - a very nice ride.
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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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Posts: 2788 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 14 at 10:19am
Forgive me if I've blinked and missed it - I was off-forum a couple of days - but have we discussed/noted the PY's recommended here:

http://www.rssailing.com/en/explore/rs-aero#

"•The initial RS Aero PN (Manufacturer suggested) yardstick subject to club returns to the RYA is:
•RS Aero 5 PN handicap 1105, RS Aero 7 PN handicap 1065, RS Aero 9 PN handicap 1025"

They look new to me, and maybe a tad harsh for the 5 inland at least, but time will tell.
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zippyRN View Drop Down
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Posts: 437 		Post Options Post Options   Quote zippyRN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 14 at 10:57am
Originally posted by iiitick

In this context 'up wind' must mean all boats sailing at the same close angle but some faster because they are planing. If one boat bears away a little and planes then even if it gets there quicker but wider it is not up wind.....

We had an Isometric and trap training day recently when our local RYA rep came down with 2 Vago's. The wind was pretty bouncy and I did see one of them plane upwind on a heavy gust but it had a 15 stone Javelin crew on the wire and a chit of a girl on the helm.


upwind VMG is something which is   a little bit ignored in dinghies  as the orthodaxy is thatthe fast est  way upwind is to beat  as the classes 'best' upwind  angle to  the wind 

as for the  windy  day and the  crew you mentioend -  the ideal 2 person single wire crew when it;s blowing is exactly that hulking great  bloke on the wire and a  a jockey-size-bloke / girl  helming 

if it;s really honking going overweight can be novel , if you are just sat there  powered up while others are  losing power / surviving  i remember sailing an Ent on the sea in North Nofolk with a Helm of world class in another class standard - we were 3 or 4 stone 'overweight' but it blew old boots all weekend  so we were just blasting away  powered up 
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Nov 14 at 1:12pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

Forgive me if I've blinked and missed it - I was off-forum a couple of days - but have we discussed/noted the PY's recommended here:

http://www.rssailing.com/en/explore/rs-aero#

"•The initial RS Aero PN (Manufacturer suggested) yardstick subject to club returns to the RYA is:
•RS Aero 5 PN handicap 1105, RS Aero 7 PN handicap 1065, RS Aero 9 PN handicap 1025"

They look new to me, and maybe a tad harsh for the 5 inland at least, but time will tell.

very surprised at  the 9 rating, two weeks ago they were talking 1035-40. Lets hope they havent overcooked it.
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