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Late starter View Drop Down
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    Posted: 14 May 22 at 11:46am
Originally posted by eric_c

I probably wouldn't put my time or money into a club which wasn't regularly putting  a suitable fleet on the water. A sailing person who moves to an area will probably not choose a failing club if there's an active club which ticks the boxes nearby.
This rings a bell with me as I recently moved to another part of the country. Although I've sailed since the 70s I'm now looking for a new club in my locality. I'm used to small, volunteer led type clubs so I don't need all the bells and whistles but I do expect the basics like getting a few boats out once or twice a week and organising some safety cover and don't mind taking my turn on duties. Sadly some of the local clubs seem virtually inactive, and all their comms seems to be around the next working party and pleas to volunteer for newbs to join the committee as they are desperate for new blood.  So do I join a moribund local club or travel an hour to a more active club ?    TBH neither have much appeal.
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6660 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 22 at 11:52am
The other thing to consider about pay and play sailing is that it will surely be lowest common denominator. At best you'd have boats like the holiday clubs. But perhaps another possibility is like US college sailing, which uses dumbed down 420s with (last time I looked) untapered masts, super strong and heavy construction, no trapezes etc. And rotomoulds of course. Nothing wrong with any of those things in the right place, but does it look like a lifetime sport?
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 22 at 11:54am
Originally posted by Noah

Originally posted by eric_c


There's a lot of people in sailing clubs whose social needs are provided for by the club rather than the sailing.

Indeed. Anecdotally, I was told that a member of a prominent and renowned south coast club was turned away from the gate by the jobsworth because the vacant parking spaces were ‘for those who want to have Sunday lunch’. Never mind those who want to go sailing and turn up at 9 with kit to lug, have to look after those in blazers who swan in at 12.30 for gin. 

I've heard that anecdote, but it was about a cricket club.

I was referring more to the people who like to be members of our clubs and get involved with maintenance, running the bar, drive safety boats, organise the youth training/racing etc etc or just turn up for adrink with vaguely like-minded people but are no longer bothered about going sailing/racing themselves. Many of those people are very valuable to a club, and the club is valuable to them.
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Do Different View Drop Down
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 22 at 11:59am
Sussex Lad @ 11.26.

You're not altogether wrong and our opinions are shaped by our experiences, possibly yours have been on occasions more jarring than my own.

I'm also a country boy so have naturally sought out Clubs that fit my inclinations.

However as said balance is all. Although I am no respecter of bigoted pomp, I do appreciate history and tradition. eg. port side : steerboard side, signal flags have practical reasons for their continued use, etc...................  The flag officer titles yes can be verging on the pompous but they also have no gender prefix so are actually very up to date in that respect and to my ear less clumsy than some of the alternatives I've heard suggested.  
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3419 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 22 at 12:15pm
Sussex lad, you have had some bad luck with visits to clubs, been lucky not to go there yet.
Robert
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 22 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by Late starter

Originally posted by eric_c

I probably wouldn't put my time or money into a club which wasn't regularly putting  a suitable fleet on the water. A sailing person who moves to an area will probably not choose a failing club if there's an active club which ticks the boxes nearby.
This rings a bell with me as I recently moved to another part of the country. Although I've sailed since the 70s I'm now looking for a new club in my locality. I'm used to small, volunteer led type clubs so I don't need all the bells and whistles but I do expect the basics like getting a few boats out once or twice a week and organising some safety cover and don't mind taking my turn on duties. Sadly some of the local clubs seem virtually inactive, and all their comms seems to be around the next working party and pleas to volunteer for newbs to join the committee as they are desperate for new blood.  So do I join a moribund local club or travel an hour to a more active club ?    TBH neither have much appeal.

Some clubs are still in a mess from covid. Some which appear moribund on social media and websites might be more active than it seems. An hour is more than i'd choose to drive each way twice a week. But if your need for regular club sailing was as great as mine you might have considered that before moving house. I did! But other people  your position might park the club sailing and just do open meetings or something, or maybe try a different watersport. I wonder if there might be 10 people like  yourself within a radius, and if you all joined the same club, it would work?
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Sussex Lad View Drop Down
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Posts: 360 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 22 at 7:06pm
Originally posted by 423zero

Sussex lad, you have had some bad luck with visits to clubs, been lucky not to go there yet.


I don't know for sure, you could be right or it could be that you are more comfortable with it. You may even like it and not have a clue what I'm on about Smile.......but I'm guessing.

Yes Do Different. We are all shaped by our experience, absolutely. What we learn from that experience is more important though. We all have a brain that can (at times) apply a bit of rational thought and may temper or shape our conclusions.........

BTW I'm white, middle class, hetro and have a bit of money so no real jarring experiences that I take personally. My distaste for what I've outlined comes from being an adult beginner (Many years ago now) who has had a wider experience  than most who has learned that monocultures with fixed constructs are not really helpful in a changing world.

Here's one to think about, and just off the top of my head so no particular order:

William and Kates "tone deaf tour of the Caribbean" and why it was tone deaf.

Increasing numbers of former colonies wanting to be Republics.

Various discussions on this and other forums, various news articles in Sailing media regarding the absence of ethnic minorities in Sailing. I assume these discussions are looking for a remedy?

The toasting of the Queen at laying up suppers and The "Royal" in the RYA.

What some sections of society may think about the terms Commodore (commander of a temporary fleet), rear Commodore, vice Commodore, Bosun.....bearing in mind these are traditional historic RN terms and the RN was the main instrument/weapon of our colonial past.

Try using a bit of empathy, put yourself in someone else's shoes. Can you understand why some sections of society might find the institution of sailing distasteful?





We're well off topic probably but what the hell. Any discussion on this has got to be worth it.
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423zero View Drop Down
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Posts: 3419 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 22 at 7:51pm
I am a Royalist, just to declare myself, I think we have gone through enough instability for the last few years without deciding to become a Republic ourselves.
Regarding the Commonwealth and Royalty, the vast majority support the Queen, re Caribbean tour, only a small contingent of politically motivated people protested, (not that they shouldn't).
Regarding the UK, why wouldn't organisations want the respectability of adding Royal to their title.
Robert
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eric_c View Drop Down
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Posts: 382 		Post Options Post Options   Quote eric_c Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 22 at 7:57pm
Originally posted by Sussex Lad

Originally posted by 423zero

Sussex lad, you have had some bad luck with visits to clubs, been lucky not to go there yet.


I don't know for sure, you could be right or it could be that you are more comfortable with it. You may even like it and not have a clue what I'm on about Smile.......but I'm guessing.

Yes Do Different. We are all shaped by our experience, absolutely. What we learn from that experience is more important though. We all have a brain that can (at times) apply a bit of rational thought and may temper or shape our conclusions.........

BTW I'm white, middle class, hetro and have a bit of money so no real jarring experiences that I take personally. My distaste for what I've outlined comes from being an adult beginner (Many years ago now) who has had a wider experience  than most who has learned that monocultures with fixed constructs are not really helpful in a changing world.

Here's one to think about, and just off the top of my head so no particular order:

William and Kates "tone deaf tour of the Caribbean" and why it was tone deaf.

Increasing numbers of former colonies wanting to be Republics.

Various discussions on this and other forums, various news articles in Sailing media regarding the absence of ethnic minorities in Sailing. I assume these discussions are looking for a remedy?

The toasting of the Queen at laying up suppers and The "Royal" in the RYA.

What some sections of society may think about the terms Commodore (commander of a temporary fleet), rear Commodore, vice Commodore, Bosun.....bearing in mind these are traditional historic RN terms and the RN was the main instrument/weapon of our colonial past.

Try using a bit of empathy, put yourself in someone else's shoes. Can you understand why some sections of society might find the institution of sailing distasteful?





We're well off topic probably but what the hell. Any discussion on this has got to be worth it.





TBH, I can't recall much toasting of the Queen at either of my current clubs, but she is head of state and I'd rather raise a glass to her than a politician. I'm indifferent about the monarchy, but it is a fact of ife that applies to everythig in the UK, we have an RAC and an RSPB and a RNLI and a load more  national bodies. you can't really have a natonal authority for a sport without a hnt of nationalism, what do you want 'World Sailing UK Branch"? Very dangerous area to meddle, it's bad enough changing K sail numbers to GBR, which some take as disowning NI, you start renaming things ow, you'll have a stupid debate about whether Scotland wants a separate organisation.
If you want to be anti-Royal, that's fine by me, but it's a much bigger thing than UK sailing.
The commodore thng is something and nothing. Why not get outraged about football teams having 'captains'? it's just  a word for a person who manages a fleet  A bosun is a person who looks after the boats.

As for the issues regarding ethnc minorities not involved in sailing, a lot of that is about most of the popl who sail comng from parents who sailed, plus the age and economic profile.
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Sussex Lad View Drop Down
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Posts: 360 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sussex Lad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 May 22 at 8:08pm
No one is asking you to abandon your beliefs I was asking you to understand an alternative perspective.

Can you understand?

Edited by Sussex Lad - 14 May 22 at 8:21pm
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