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Multi-rig racing

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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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    Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 12:35pm
Originally posted by Peaky

What kind of person would buy a SMOD and then buy a second (different one) just so that they could win when it windy, whilst claiming the two boats are the same? By all means buy two different boats, but race them as two different ones.

Except it's not two boats, is it?  It is just one lump of plastic in the boat park with a relatively cheap extra poles and an extra sail.

Put it another way.  If I raced an Ent., I'm not going to go out and buy a 420 for windy days,and the boat park sec. wouldn't thank me for doing it either.  But if I've got a Laser or Aero, why wouldn't I want to spend a few quid on a smaller rig and enjoy the windy days too?

Like I said above, if I started winning all the chocs as a result and it upset other club members, then I would have to accept that my two sails were regarded as different entries in the series.  In practice at WSC, however, I've never heard a murmur of complaint about our Lasers rig-swapping.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodbotherer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by jeffers

 

And what about the ones who cannot afford to buy a second rig..who then bugger off and do something else?


Isn't that what the GP14 class is for?

And this is really an irrelevant discussion since ninety percent of club racers buy 2nd hand anyway and that won't change, this is about making things better for the future, so one boat can cope with a range of conditions without it permanently being a streaker or solo..

If folk can afford a new boat, no reason they couldn't afford a 2nd rig later.




Edited by Woodbotherer - 10 Mar 15 at 12:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 12:10pm
What kind of person would buy a SMOD and then buy a second (different one) just so that they could win when it windy, whilst claiming the two boats are the same? By all means buy two different boats, but race them as two different ones.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by Woodbotherer

I think if as most seem to be saying, you're struggling to attract new participants, anything that helps ease the process is a good thing. Multi rigs are the norm in my world but of course we don't have handicaps to worry about, but in the end it all favoured the bigger folk who could hold up the biggest sail across the widest range of conditions.

This is club racing however, so if its going to encourage folk on the water that might otherwise bugger off golfing then it has to be a good thing, lets face it most are at the end of the life scale that won't baulk at a couple of rigs and at the other end of the scale they've got youf going for them and you can't buy that can you? 
So buy a big rig and stuff them. LOL

I get the argument that it should be encouraged as it promotes participation in the sport.  Just in practice i am not sure it does.  If it does is it also not fair to argue that it could be encouraging people to sail in conditions their own safety instinct would suggest perhaps it was not a good idea?  As such putting people off sailing all together?  Most people i know are are aware of their limits and changing sail size doesn't really change that.  They capsized ina  full rig Laser in 20knts, they still capsize in an radial.  The only difference is they probably wouldn't of gone out in the full rig in big winds and probably wont in the radial as well now!

Perhaps some adult sailing courses aimed at helping people with boat handling and understanding their limitations would be a better way to encourage participation?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 12:04pm
Originally posted by NeilB-Phantom

The point missed in the Yacht analogy is that when the conditions are such that you use the #3 instead of the #1 or reef the main your yachts handicap doesn't change.  So following the same principle if you sail an aero 9 and swap to the 7 when its windy then you should keep the handicap of of the 9 not that of the 7. 

Or if you sail a 7 usually and plan to swap up to the 9 in the light you should declare that on entering the series and take the handicap of the 9.   It'd be like a yacht getting a new bigger spinnaker part way through a series, she'd have to get re-rated to use it.


completely agree.

If you start in a Laser 8.1 or Full rig and want to change down to say, Radial, for blowy stuff, not a problem, but you get a result with the same handicap as you started out with, or you get two results in the series.

In my experience, just finishing on a windy day can get you a decent series result sometimes (or often), so there is less disadvantage in starting 'big' and having a change down option, even with the 'big' PY, than going the other way for the light stuff.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote getafix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 12:01pm
Originally posted by Paramedic

A proposal to make the Laser fleet stick to a PY caused a bit of an upset at my club, to the extent that it never went through.

The problem is that the guys with multi rigs don't realise that

1) No-one else can do what they can

2) they are having their cake and eating it.

They see it as part of their buying into that class.



If that is the will of the majority of Laser sailors at the club then fine, do it. 

IMO, if that means some people (aka the minority) don't want to sail Lasers there anymore then they can move to another club, or they can buy any one of dozens of alternative single-handers with one rig and no differing PY debate. 

To me, it's no different to say a cycling club having a majority decision to ride only on Sundays (when you can only make Saturdays) or a Rugby club only offering 5 matches a year for a 3rd or 4th 15.  If you don't like it, IMO, leave and join somewhere else.  The country is full of sailing, cycling and rugby clubs, there will be a welcome not far away.


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Post Options Post Options   Quote Washy71 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 10:05am
Have to say it p%%sed me off no end "having" to buy a Radial rig for the Laser in order to remain competitive with other guys in the fleet who had the option to shift down in breeze. If you're a competitive kind of person, and I am, seeing your competition romp up a beat nicely in control whilst you're hanging on by your toenails is no fun.

Grafham Water SC allow rig switching in fleet racing (that's what the Laser fleet chose to do) but its not allowed in handicap racing.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Medway Maniac Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 9:43am
Originally posted by Woodbotherer

I think if as most seem to be saying, you're struggling to attract new participants, anything that helps ease the process is a good thing. Multi rigs are the norm in my world but of course we don't have handicaps to worry about, but in the end it all favoured the bigger folk who could hold up the biggest sail across the widest range of conditions.
This is club racing however, so if its going to encourage folk on the water that might otherwise bugger off golfing then it has to be a good thing, lets face it most are at the end of the life scale that won't baulk at a couple of rigs and at the other end of the scale they've got youf going for them and you can't buy that can you? 
So buy a big rig and stuff them. LOL

Yes, provided that the increased number who race thanks to multiple rigs aren't outnumbered by those who give up, feeling they can't compete with the rig-switchers.

That is why we decided allow switching only until they start winning unduly in the eyes of the rest of the membership. Till now though, after at least 12 years, no problem.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 9:42am
Originally posted by Woodbotherer


This is club racing however, so if its going to encourage folk on the water that might otherwise bugger off golfing then it has to be a good thing, lets face it most are at the end of the life scale that won't baulk at a couple of rigs and at the other end of the scale they've got youf going for them and you can't buy that can you? 
So buy a big rig and stuff them. LOL

And what about the ones who cannot afford to buy a second rig..who then bugger off and do something else?

2 sides to every story.....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Woodbotherer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Mar 15 at 9:33am
I think if as most seem to be saying, you're struggling to attract new participants, anything that helps ease the process is a good thing. Multi rigs are the norm in my world but of course we don't have handicaps to worry about, but in the end it all favoured the bigger folk who could hold up the biggest sail across the widest range of conditions.

This is club racing however, so if its going to encourage folk on the water that might otherwise bugger off golfing then it has to be a good thing, lets face it most are at the end of the life scale that won't baulk at a couple of rigs and at the other end of the scale they've got youf going for them and you can't buy that can you? 
So buy a big rig and stuff them. LOL
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