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Do Different View Drop Down
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Joined: 26 Jan 12
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Dinghy popularity
    Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 9:24pm
Sounds to me like EJ could be voicing a fairly representative view of the new entrant to our sport.
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Do Different View Drop Down
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 10:08pm
I was also a late entrant to the sport, very late 30s. I was introduced to a sea sailing Club and sort of picked it up as I went along, crewing for a season in Wayfarers. 

I will say although I mostly agree with Winging It there is an element of iGRF that I agree with even if not to his extreme with regard to lighter boats.

My sailing did not really come alive until I got a Laser. To be honest I always felt the size and weight of the Wayfarer to be in some ways intimidating in that my input did not seem to have a great effect. Although a little challenging to begin with the Laser was a revelation with it's responsiveness and although lively never felt intimidating. Of course it is different for all but I came from a background of riding ponies in my youth and the (to me) dead feel of the Wayfarer was a worry, perhaps others coming from a more mechanical background cars, bikes need their craft to feel less alive. 
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Koops View Drop Down
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Posts: 52 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Koops Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 11:26pm
Thanks for your post Do Different, it made me :-)

Graham - mechanical engineer - avid rider of KTM Superduke and RS300 - not dead, yet :-p
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sargesail View Drop Down
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 13 at 2:21am
Koops,

But we've had a few near misses in the 300 haven't we?

(And I do seem to recall you spent a season or two in a Styx Ferry Class....)
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 13 at 3:07am
Originally posted by Old Timer

Chris249; what is this poly class you describe?
 
It's the Windsurfer One Design, an '80s update of the original Windsurfer. While not a dinghy, there's an enormous crossover between dinghy sailors and longboard racers down here and IMHO it's a valid comparison particularly just about everyone in the class has sailed higher-tech boards and boats and yet we're all happy with a lower-tech hull.
 
I find the switch away from polyethylene construction in boards to be very instructive since it was motivated by the industry aggressively marketing high-performance gear and attacking older stuff.  There's some interesting interviews around where kayak manufacturers note how they went from watching all their customers (and lots of other people) get into windsurfing and then drop out of it again when windsurfing went high tech. The collapse of windsurfing also meant that the kayak guys had dealers in need of a product that would sell, and ironically that product (poly beginner's kayaks) was sometimes built with the polyethylene production machinery and staff that windsurfer factories had discarded when they went on the fatal "everyone wants high tech" kamikazi course.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 13 at 4:35am
Originally posted by Old Timer

here is some research on what a newbie is getting pedalled ...


Look through that lot and you will see lots of beginner friendly kit and not a foiling Moth in sight ...

Is the sport really guilty of pushing elite kit to newbies?

The only skiff I could see was http://www.minorcasailing.co.uk/ but this is perhaps more of a high end resort anyway ....
That stuff's great, but the attitude of many in the sport seems to be that the future is much less accessible craft; that's why EUROSAF said that an event for kites, skiffs, foilers and kite cats was "representing the future of sailing"; why people promoted the women's skfif saying "this is the kind of boat ISAF should be looking to for the future of our sport"; why an influential member of the sailing industry said to ISAF " Tornados and women’s skiff!! Excitement. Future of sailing."

 

Seahorse Magazine a couple of years back reported that the Int 14s and Moths - foilers that had attracted about 120 boats between them at their worlds at Garda - were "the future" of the sport whereas they completely ignored the fact that the various Laser worlds that year got 1500 PRE-QUALIFIED entrants to places as distant as South Africa and New Zealand.

 

The Viper F16 high performance cat claimed to "showcase sailing's future, its willingness to move with the times, its desire to be high-performance and media savvy...."It's the future of sailing, the class that is young and fresh but at the same time high-performance."

 

Seahorse repeatedly claims that high performance is the future, as does Sailing Anarchy, Magnus Wheatley in his evidence-free ravings, and many others. Luckily the UK dinghy builders seem to have changed their tune since the initial "skiffs are the future" call of the early 2000s.

 

There are many other examples I could find in my stack of mags (try anything written by Frank Bethwaite, who is serialised in Seahorse) but I'm away this weekend.
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Do Different View Drop Down
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Posts: 1312 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Do Different Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 13 at 8:12am
"Thanks for your post Do Different, it made me :-) 

Graham - mechanical engineer - avid rider of KTM Superduke and RS300 - not dead, yet :-p"

My Pleasure Koops, what's emoticon for slightly embarrassed smile? I like your style, KTM Superduke, too many ponies for me.

Interesting that you ended up with an RS300 and not a Cat. So it's not all about speed, most people are attracted engineers included to sailing by the sensations it generates. Speed alone does not provide good sensations.     






Edited by Do Different - 28 Jun 13 at 8:57am
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 13 at 9:03am
Chris, I guess as far as magazines go, the new has 1) the advantage of not being written to death already, so people will be interested 2) flashy pictures and 3) advertaizing revenue. Triple whammy for a magazine, surely? They are bound to say that new is the future.

Trouble is, people who are new to the sport won't understand, and may well go out and buy a Nacra 17 as their first boat, not realizing it will bite them in the bum, whereas a Dart 16 would have given them the skills needed to handle it, and be more enjoyable to sail as a beginner in the process.

Mind, as we are on the Y&Y site, I would say that a while ago, Y&Y ran a fair few features on what to sail if new to sailing, and often run articles about sailing holidays and such, which are usually aimed at inexperienced sailors. But I think we would all get bored with a mag that didn't have articles about mad boats that I wouldn't want to own in a million years, but am glad exist, or boats so expensive that you wonder any sell at all.
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Old Timer View Drop Down
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Joined: 05 Jun 13
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Posts: 370 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 13 at 9:32am
Originally posted by Chris 249

Originally posted by Old Timer

here is some research on what a newbie is getting pedalled ...


Look through that lot and you will see lots of beginner friendly kit and not a foiling Moth in sight ...

Is the sport really guilty of pushing elite kit to newbies?

The only skiff I could see was http://www.minorcasailing.co.uk/ but this is perhaps more of a high end resort anyway ....
That stuff's great, but the attitude of many in the sport seems to be that the future is much less accessible craft; that's why EUROSAF said that an event for kites, skiffs, foilers and kite cats was "representing the future of sailing"; why people promoted the women's skfif saying "this is the kind of boat ISAF should be looking to for the future of our sport"; why an influential member of the sailing industry said to ISAF " Tornados and women’s skiff!! Excitement. Future of sailing."

 

Seahorse Magazine a couple of years back reported that the Int 14s and Moths - foilers that had attracted about 120 boats between them at their worlds at Garda - were "the future" of the sport whereas they completely ignored the fact that the various Laser worlds that year got 1500 PRE-QUALIFIED entrants to places as distant as South Africa and New Zealand.

 

The Viper F16 high performance cat claimed to "showcase sailing's future, its willingness to move with the times, its desire to be high-performance and media savvy...."It's the future of sailing, the class that is young and fresh but at the same time high-performance."

 

Seahorse repeatedly claims that high performance is the future, as does Sailing Anarchy, Magnus Wheatley in his evidence-free ravings, and many others. Luckily the UK dinghy builders seem to have changed their tune since the initial "skiffs are the future" call of the early 2000s.

 

There are many other examples I could find in my stack of mags (try anything written by Frank Bethwaite, who is serialised in Seahorse) but I'm away this weekend.


I don't think those organisations are really touching newbies, the links I listed are more likely to be their contact points. High performance probably is the future of elite sailing; if I was 20 somthing and full time I'd want to sail something exciting  ...

I remember those windsurfers, wooden booms etc ... have not seen one in years, wind surfer racing does not really exist in the UK in any significant numbers bar a few big one-off events. 

Have you any links to reports of your racing for interest?


Edited by Old Timer - 28 Jun 13 at 9:45am
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Jun 13 at 9:47am
Originally posted by Old Timer

High performance probably is the future of elite sailing; if I was 20 somthing and full time I'd want to sail something exciting it I were a full time pro ...

If I were 23 something and a full time sponsored sailor I'd want to sail whichever of the current Olympic boats gave me the best chance of a medal in order to make my name, and once I'd made my name and was a real earning pro I'd have to sail whatever paid me the mortgage, and the chances are that would be some tedious doggy old leadmine on endless windward leeward courses, because that's where the money is...

By and large high performance dinghies are the province of amateurs, and long may it stay that way. Its the only way to keep the costs halfway sensible.

Edited by JimC - 28 Jun 13 at 9:47am
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