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Medway Maniac View Drop Down
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    Posted: 11 Nov 14 at 11:39am
So, compared to the Laser, the D-Zero is:
- faster
- more comfortable
- easier to sail
- less likely to capsize ('more stable' is too ambiguous)
- easier to right when capsized
- lighter to lug around on shore
- better built.

What have I missed?
Wilsonian SC
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 14 at 11:43am
about 200,000 others to race against around the globe.... that is, and always will be, the achilles heel of any boat in this market space.  
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Washy71 View Drop Down
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Posts: 56 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Washy71 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 14 at 12:14pm
Originally posted by kneewrecker

about 200,000 others to race against around the globe.... that is, and always will be, the achilles heel of any boat in this market space.  


I kind of agree with that, its why I bought a Laser when I returned to the sport in 2012. There is a but, though! At GWSC we're finding that folk who wont touch a Laser with a barge pole, or previously owned one couldn't tolerate it and got into something else entirely different, are moving into the D-Zero as they really want a simple single hander. If we can keep up the momentum so far the size of the D-Zero fleet could be significantly larger than the Laser fleet ever was due the points summarised above by Medway Maniac. To get there though we will likely need a used market with a price point to suit a broader range of pockets so its going to take a little time.
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Daniel Holman View Drop Down
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Posts: 997 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Daniel Holman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 14 at 12:16pm
Originally posted by Medway Maniac

So, compared to the Laser, the D-Zero is:
- faster
- more comfortable
- easier to sail
- less likely to capsize ('more stable' is too ambiguous)
- easier to right when capsized
- lighter to lug around on shore
- better built.
What have I missed?


While obviously partisan, I would add the following:

1. Better purchasing experience, after sales and warranty support.
2. Whilst a little more expensive, I reckon you wouldn't need to be a hugely frequent user to achieve through life cost improvements, mostly in the arenas of robustness and suitability for purpose of spars, sails and foils.
3. You can fit more of your kids in it and take them for a sail, as proven recently by a happy owner and former colleague of mine.
4. Subjective, but some may consider it easier on the eye.

No as designed go pro mounts tho..
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kneewrecker View Drop Down
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Posts: 1586 		Post Options Post Options   Quote kneewrecker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 14 at 12:24pm
Originally posted by Washy71

Originally posted by kneewrecker

about 200,000 others to race against around the globe.... that is, and always will be, the achilles heel of any boat in this market space.  


I kind of agree with that, its why I bought a Laser when I returned to the sport in 2012. There is a but, though! At GWSC we're finding that folk who wont touch a Laser with a barge pole, or previously owned one couldn't tolerate it and got into something else entirely different, are moving into the D-Zero as they really want a simple single hander. If we can keep up the momentum so far the size of the D-Zero fleet could be significantly larger than the Laser fleet ever was due the points summarised above by Medway Maniac. To get there though we will likely need a used market with a price point to suit a broader range of pockets so its going to take a little time.

absolutely spot on - sold my Laser 10 years ago and would be very reluctant to buy another one.  

The D-Zero is perfect update to address the issues I had with my Laser, namely it was just a bit dull in lightwinds and I was crap downwind, with none of the gimmicks and complexities of other boats I've had in between.  
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 14 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by Rat Man

Dear All,

The Ovington Inlands were held at Grafham last weekend, on Sunday The Phantoms had the pleasure of racing off the same start as the D-Zero fleet, In race 1 we started with very little (none) breeze and the greater sail area & waterline length of the phantom appeared slightly faster. The second race started in a little more wind 4-7 mph a couple of the D-zero sailors shot off the start-line and held the lead on the water at times. This was helped as the course was nearly a perfect square, giving a good length run (the Phantoms hate running as the shrouds prevent the boom getting square) whereas the unstayed rig on the D-zero allows running by the lee etc. Therefore if you assume the leading Phantoms are at least sailing to handicap (1002-1008 depending on whom you believe) then the leading D-zero will be sailing to a handicap of <1010. There is another point that few are bringing up… The Phantom handicap didn’t start at 1002 we moved over a great number of years from around 1050, some of that is due to modern materials but a percentage is due to improved techniques and rig set up. I know the phantom is partially a development class and the D-Zero is a one design, but so is / was the laser and the good guys in the laser just kept on getting faster & faster (ok I accept they became professional, but the kit is essentially the same). Most of you guys have had your boats a few weeks, trust me, the fleet will be going even faster in a year’s time when you work out how to set the thing up properly. But please stop complaining about a handicap of 1050, its going to be much faster than that.

Regards

The Rat Man

Just to add some context here.

I am pretty sure I know the 2 sailors here. 1 is some 10kg under the ideal weight range so will go very nicely in the light (they went pretty quick in the wind at Oxford). The other is a front of the fleet sailor anyway so reading anything PY wise in to this is probably a little precipitous. 

I accept that as we learn about setup and what tweaks work and what do not the average speed of the boat will get quicker but the potential is always there!

Racing a Phantom in marginal conditions at Hunts there was no contest, they just sailed away....

Time will tell though, we have done the PY debate to death enough times. Let us see what Feb 2015 brings from the learned souls in the PYAG. All D-Zero racers have a PY that they are using and they vary widely.
Paul
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mittens View Drop Down
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Posts: 10 		Post Options Post Options   Quote mittens Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 14 at 1:49pm
I think that in fairness to both fleets the start of the second race was a bit of a shambles and I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from the racing. Half the Phantom fleet thought we had three minutes after the Flying Fifteens re-started and were somewhat taken aback to watch the start after two minutes.

I'd say the zero looked good though and it will become a bandit off that handicap...
Chris Roberts
Phantom 1395
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Null View Drop Down
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 14 at 1:51pm
For clarity rat man, not one d-zero owner has complained about a py of 1050.  Mainly because ei don't think anyone sails one off 1050!!!!!  GL are chucking a py of around 1015 for the wi ter handicap events. Not too far off your guess of 1010....  However I will caveat this.  You sailed against the zero in a very, very narrow window...a drifter, it's impossible to make a reasonable argument off one wind window.  What about 25 knotts on the brine??  

Anyway I don't think we want to get this thread drifting back on to py's again!!
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mangoman View Drop Down
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Posts: 69 		Post Options Post Options   Quote mangoman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 14 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by mittens

I think that in fairness to both fleets the start of the second race was a bit of a shambles and I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from the racing. Half the Phantom fleet thought we had three minutes after the Flying Fifteens re-started and were somewhat taken aback to watch the start after two minutes.

I'd say the zero looked good though and it will become a bandit off that handicap...


I would have liked to have seen the Zeros out in the wind we had on Saturday at Grafham ...... Wink
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jeffers View Drop Down
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Posts: 3048 		Post Options Post Options   Quote jeffers Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Nov 14 at 2:34pm
Originally posted by mangoman

Originally posted by mittens

I think that in fairness to both fleets the start of the second race was a bit of a shambles and I wouldn't draw too many conclusions from the racing. Half the Phantom fleet thought we had three minutes after the Flying Fifteens re-started and were somewhat taken aback to watch the start after two minutes.

I'd say the zero looked good though and it will become a bandit off that handicap...


I would have liked to have seen the Zeros out in the wind we had on Saturday at Grafham ...... Wink

We had them out in some serious wind a few weeks back at Hunts, I will see if I can dig the pictures up. There are pics of the guy who is sailing his boat for the second time.
Paul
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