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marke View Drop Down
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Posts: 211 		Post Options Post Options   Quote marke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Grafham Grand Prix
    Posted: 01 Jan 12 at 4:42pm
Nope Mike - you haven't got that wrong at all.  Its exactly how the RYA PY system is supposed to work - look at the text that the RYA publish with their numbers each year.

If the SailJuice series were run on small puddles then I would expect to see the faster boat numbers moving in the other direction - but it isn't - its on open waters.
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winging it View Drop Down
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Posts: 3958 		Post Options Post Options   Quote winging it Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 12 at 4:47pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

I'd hoped to do this, but so far haven't managed to get some tramps sorted for the wings, so maybe next time..


as I said on fb, I can lend you a pair of moth tramps, but they aren't a regular shape.
the same, but different...

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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 12 at 5:05pm
....... you haven't got that wrong at all.  Its exactly how the RYA PY system is supposed to work - look at the text that the RYA publish with their numbers each year.

Hi Marke

Read a long time ago but thanks  ... which is why I posed the idea of adjustment the other way.  Anyone pushing for adjustment the other way would surely point to or supply a bit of numerical analysis as well.   There is good intent behind the initiative at GGP etc  ... of course ... but it needs to be partnered with full transparency, consistency in application and access to numbers/results used for anyone with an interest.   < 30 seconds or less to send an excell spreadsheet with data/method ..   

May all be a tad inconvenient but that is the way of the world these days.  Ronnie Reagan once said of the arms negotiations with the USSR a while back something along the lines of ' trust them ? - of course .. but always check'

Mike L.
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chrisg View Drop Down
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Posts: 893 		Post Options Post Options   Quote chrisg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 12 at 5:10pm
Mike, do you ask for all of the data from the RYA too?
Have you contacted Andrew directly yet?


Edited by chrisg - 01 Jan 12 at 5:12pm
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Neptune View Drop Down
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Posts: 1314 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Neptune Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 12 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by blaze720


... say 60 points on the 600 at Burghfield should do it!Neptune - I was thinking you in particular might just like that idea.  Said in a jovial manner but a serious point.  Fair is fair ... for all ...or have we got that wrong  ?Peaky - GGP ? not this time as committed elsewhere tomorrow but if you are going good luck.  Maybe we should race together at Chew or even BSC some time.  RU doing 'The Dash' btw ? Mike L.


Why are you picking on me    
Musto Skiff and Solo sailor
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 12 at 6:39pm
Originally posted by winging it

Originally posted by G.R.F.

I'd hoped to do this, but so far haven't managed to get some tramps sorted for the wings, so maybe next time..


as I said on fb, I can lend you a pair of moth tramps, but they aren't a regular shape.

It's a knaff call, driving all the way up there on the off chance they'll fit wing wang and i haven't got the thing ready to travel, but I appreciate the offer, saw a forecast gave 32 kts as well, not ideal for a first time foray on a totally new boat, never mind an untested design.. I should have put that fb call out days ago..


Edited by G.R.F. - 01 Jan 12 at 6:40pm
https://www.ease-distribution.com/
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 12 at 7:57pm

Mike, do you ask for all of the data from the RYA too?

Not recently but a while back I was involved with club returns.   Those who might be uncertain about change there could ask I'm sure ... the number of official returns from clubs have however been sufficient for the Blaze to have 'secondary status' for some years now.   If the numerical returns from clubs indicate change is needed I'm sure they can be justified by reference to the numbers employed.  In short there is confidence in this long standing system and its method is hardly 'unknown'.

I and many others have no problem with PNs being adjusted over time based on published numbers or as with the GGP them being adjusted to take into account 'open water' or whatever (though wind speed might have a much greater impact imo).    However what on earth is the problem with making more explanation public ??   There are concerns about consistency in application.  Are the changes entirely being made on numerical analysis - Yes or No ? If the answer is anything less than an emphatic 'Yes' and/or indicated adjustments are not being applied with total consistency then a bit of explanation would be warranted.

Now you may think the concerns are irrelevant, troublesome, wrongly motivated or even petty but that is exactly why the numerical data they are based upon should and must be made available.    In short reasonable enquiries about method and application should not be taken as criticism.

Mike L.
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marke View Drop Down
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Posts: 211 		Post Options Post Options   Quote marke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 12 at 8:10pm
Mike

As Chris said - have you actually contacted Andrew or any of the other SailJuice PY group directly yet? I'm sure they would be happy to provide the information you want if you approach them in a positive manner. 

Mark
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rogue View Drop Down
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Posts: 978 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 12 at 9:26pm
Well this thread is really selling it... Drove past Huntingdon today and saw the sign for Grafham, it reminded me of the GGP last year, it was the best event I did. f**k knows where I came, like 99.9% I was never in with a chance anyway, but the sailing, courses, racing and OTW attitude was excellent.
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blaze720 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 12 at 10:01pm
Hi Mark

I would not be racing this year anyway in either class we build but I believe the Blaze CA technical officer has or is making less public direct enquires already - he may well be at Grafham.   The GGP has always been a good event in the past in my experience and I'm sure will well supported tomorrow but this is a significant change. 

It bears repeating that simply seeking additional explanation and data however is not ill-considered criticism as some seem to assume.   Systems of any kind that are open to full scrutiny tend to be resiliant over time and more fully and widely supported.   In this instance some of the 'grass roots' mid-fleet have posed what many think are reasonable questions and these are now ones that should be addressed.

Mike L.
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