2016 events?

Originally posted by alstorer Originally posted by Menace  If you don't like rotomoulding, bio-resins are coming on leaps and bounds, to the extent that other sectors are investing heavily in this sector. Sustainable composites are the way of the future, I'd be a lot more impressed nowadays with a high performance boat made out of sustainable materials than say a moth which weighs 1kg less than the last one. I'd be bloody impressed with a high performance boat made of "sustainable" materials given the actual reality of them at the moment. Bio resin properties are stil vastly, vastly inferior to what can be achieved with petrochemical resins. Bio fibres, even worse.

OK, don't know enough about materials to agree or dissagree, still think a guiding principle of good boat design should be longevity, so a well designed boat, IMO, would have a competitive hull "life" of at least 7-10 years, I make the distinction between hull and other parts as we all know sails, rigging etc will wear out much faster than that.  The point is; if you can't make exiting or interesting boats from sustainable materials, then you should make them with non-sustainable materials to designs, and with techniqyues, that mean they remain competitive for a long time.

Good for buyers,,, not so good for manufacturers.  I like the Vago, Xenon and Feva for what they are and certainly don't subscribe to this snearing attitude towards anyone elses boat (irrespective of material or age, if they're having fun, then good on 'em), but I do seriously wonder whether the manufacturers slant towards roto-moulding has more to do with profit margins than anything else...

Originally posted by turnturtle Originally posted by Peaky On reflection, I am beginning to think the ISAF should have voted for a Ladies assymtric class rather than a skiff. It is much easier to agree a definition (and therefore agree which classes are eligable to contest the spot) and is also a broader church.    I think in reality they did Peaky... as you said, Chris's last post is just a cleverly constructed semantic debate over the skiff term; which frankly is beginning to sound as dogmatic and pedantic as his unrelenting evangelism for the Laser, with absolutely little regard for what some of us think are quite serious commercial and technical foibles. I recognise the Laser isn't perfect, just get a bit hacked off when people appear to regularly blow its faults out of proportion.   I've been surprised by how many people from Europe & US call the RS100 a 'skiff', a term that I personally avoid at all costs when describing the boat to other sailors, especially given the level of complexity the Brits and Aussies seem to put on its usage... remember all that BS about a 'musto skiff' not being a proper skiff?   It's just globalisation accelerating the evolution of language- in this case, developing a lingua franca of the sailing nomenclature.  Skiff has become a defacto term in International English for an asymmetric dinghy.  Given that even ISAF is effectively endorsing this in its lexicon, suggests to me it really doesn't matter whether us Brits and our distant relatives down under approve or not.

If ISAF actually reckon that an Opti or Wayfarer with a 1m assy tacked on is a "skiff", then why do they seem to assume that such craft will lift TV ratings? Surely if they are going for skiffs on the grounds that they are more spectacular, they believe that skiffs are more than just another dinghy with a different kite type.

Sorry for going on, but there was a question about the definition of “skiff”, and I happen to have spent a fair bit of time doing proper historical research into the question (among others). 

It’s not just being pedantic – it’s trying to stop a useful term becoming another meaningless wishy-washy weasel word that means nothing, apparently for no better reason that satisfying the egos of a few people who want to seem cool.  If “skiff” means everything from 18 Footer to RS200 (great little boat) then it doesn’t really mean much.  On the other hand, if we maintain a certain loose definition, it remains a useful term.

Other sports manage to define their gear – you don’t see people calling their BMX bike a road bike, you don’t see surfers getting confused between Mals and Guns.  They agree on definitions that set types of gear apart from each other in a way that allows useful communication.  Why can’t sailing be the same?

Calling any assy dinghy a skiff is a bit like calling a Sonata 7 a “maxi racer”, or a beat-up Hobie 14 a C Class cat. It just confuses the issue, apparently for ego’s sake.  It’s like me calling myself a pro cyclist because I won 12 quid for getting third in the lowest grade at the club – it just renders the term meaningless.

 

Anyway, I’m outa here.

PS = I have yet to meet a designer who didn't speak of "skiffs" and "dinghies" as quite different types.

Edited by Chris 249 - 19 Nov 10 at 2:18pm

Originally posted by SalsaPirates While I recognise the need to make our sport attractive, lets be careful not to let the pendulum swing to far towards crash and burn and against good for the atheletes.   We do not see Rowing having debates as to whether to place a few mines on the course as that would make it more exciting to watch or perhaps put razor blades on top of the hurdles ......  or make the sprinters wear clown shoes .....  it would certainly make it more entertaining to watch   This is suppossed to be Olympics = sporting prowess, not competing against total wipeout!!

Originally posted by alstorer Originally posted by Menace  If you don't like rotomoulding, bio-resins are coming on leaps and bounds, to the extent that other sectors are investing heavily in this sector. Sustainable composites are the way of the future, I'd be a lot more impressed nowadays with a high performance boat made out of sustainable materials than say a moth which weighs 1kg less than the last one. I'd be bloody impressed with a high performance boat made of "sustainable" materials given the actual reality of them at the moment. Bio resin properties are stil vastly, vastly inferior to what can be achieved with petrochemical resins. Bio fibres, even worse.

I don't want to go on about it too much as there could be percieved comercial interests at play from either of us, however, I've been seeing some bio-resins that are not a million miles away from petro-chemical resins and have the added bonus of being less brittle. All I'll say at the moment is I reckon they may come into their own in certain applications in a few years time. Al, please don't interpret this as me being funny with you, I'm just quite involved with a few non-mainstream projects at the moment, and some datat sheets for bio-resins have actually impressed me quite a bit recently. Up until then, I was quite scepticle but a lot of people outside the sailing boat industry are taking them very seriously.

Edited by Menace - 19 Nov 10 at 7:47pm

Maybe a little too much wine, this is the 2016 thread, not the women's skifff (or not skiff thread). Recycling in the boat industry is quite exciting to me, arguing about what a boat is called is boring. Maybe the Olympics discussion is getting a bit boring, hence the side tracking, anyone see the F1 last weekend?