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Alto - Why?

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Jamesd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Jamesd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Alto - Why?
    Posted: 06 Mar 08 at 12:25pm

The reason boats flops is their is they have no active strong fleet. People buy boats that have a strong fleet, not how good the boat is, take the laser for instance, what a crap boat, but with 190k of them kicking around you can fleet race anywhere in the world. the 200 has a strong fleet and people want to join it. but i believe that to build up the fleet to begin with the design must have that unique thing that kicks it off to get the first 50 sales in, which means 20 boats at opens and 35 at the nationals. an example is the success of the foiling moth, its taken off in the last year because nothing else is foiling and people bought them because a. its a challenge and b. its a thrill. enough people think like that and all of a sudden you have a fleet. I presume the musto skiff is the same, it was brought out and before the foiling moth was the fastest most exhilerating one man boat to sail, i expect 20 people thought that looks like a challenge, and then you have a fleet.

Anyway my point is, Does the alto have any real unique features? does it really jump out of the crowd? i personally dont see the appeal. Dont get me wrong i think the boat looks brilliant, im sure it sails well, is designed well etc but its 10 years to late onto the scene, its all be done before. Saying all this i didnt think the 500 would do to well but thats going well.

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hum3 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hum3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 08 at 4:24pm

I think one reason why the RS's have been successful is the association's ability to leverage all it's classes to generate 'greater than the sum of its parts' position. So the 300's only get 12 boats at an event (for example). Put them with the 400's with 40 and suddenly you have an event that can 1) get into a good venue, and 2) have lots of people around for the social. I think the smaller individual classes, like the Alto, will need to do the same to maintain some sort of critical mass.

I am, of course, looking at this form a racing/circuit point of view, but that is usually what usually drives the critical mass of ownership in the first place - ie keen, regular sailors who know the boats, provide advice to new owners, take positions of responsibility within the class organisation, and help maintain a second hand market by regularly buying new. 

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Chris Bridges View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris Bridges Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 08 at 4:31pm

Other small classes will always be up for sharing events so thats quite easy to get around. Some classes always share with a certain other class, for instance the 29ers and 49ers are nearly always together but i gues thats not really a good example

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Post Options Post Options   Quote 29er310 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 08 at 4:39pm
Personally I think that the Alto looks really good and I hope GRF has some fun with it, I quite like the old Wing-Wang system for the kite pole, I havent used either a 400 or a 4000 but when I was 11 one of the local boat builders in Chichester Harbour built a small training boat that was meant to be a step between an oppy/mirror up to a 29er/420 which had a canting pole and for the small channels and tight situations that Chichester Harbour often throws up it was very useful and quite a simple system which worked well, unfortunately the boat never went in to production but it was quite cool.
George

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hum3 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote hum3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 08 at 6:28pm
Originally posted by Chris Bridges

Other small classes will always be up for sharing events so thats quite easy to get around.

If you say so!

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Chris Bridges View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris Bridges Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 08 at 6:44pm
Originally posted by hum3

Originally posted by Chris Bridges

Other small classes will always be up for sharing events so thats quite easy to get around.

If you say so!

Why wouldn't they? If its a small class sharing an event won't really be a disadvantage, and on the plus side they get decent venues, good socials etc.

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Skiffybob View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Skiffybob Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 08 at 7:04pm

I'm afraid I don't agree with the sentiment about "big fleets win". This is sheep syndrome. I want one because everyone else has one.

Some people like to think for themselves and make their own choices, and frankly I admire GRF for not taking the usual stance of "I'll see if they take off first, and then perhaps I'll get one when there's a fleet", or the even worse stand of "I'll have a plastic-fantastic XXX because everyone else has got one (even though they're crap)". He's decided what HE wants to sail, and why, and that's what counts.

We did the same (if not in an even more slightly extreme way). We worked out what we wanted to sail, and found that they were all in Aus and NZ. Did this stop us? No.

When we got our first one over, we said that if nobody else wanted to sail them, that didn't matter a jot to us, because we would be sailing what we wanted and loving every minute of it. It then turned out that we weren't the only ones, but everyone else was waiting for someone else to do it first.

Another bonus of course, is that he stands a really good chance of being National Champ this year

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tmoore View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote tmoore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 08 at 7:20pm

well put. no boat can be consider good or bad. they just suit/ dont suit people. pico's etc which are all plastic are great for teaching people in and heavy weather, unlike high performance boats which would get trashed on a surfy, shingle beach. its like saying 'laser standard is crap because it rules out women' - well a radial rules out large numbers of men. its all about suitability.

at my club i have recently started sailing an rs300 (there is one other guy with one but he is most often away at uni). im nt doing great on the handicap in it and the GP14 blokes laugh at how i struggle in breeze saying i should have moved into a GP. well i could have done, but even when i swim lots, i still come off the water with the biggest grin of everyone, to me thats what counts. i will never win an olympics/ nationals etc, so ill just enjoy sailing the boat.

hope GRF gets the same satisfaction that i get from the 300

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Post Options Post Options   Quote radixon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 08 at 7:25pm
You choose your boat to suit the sailing you want to do. The best thing at our club is there is a "Handlicap" race, so whatever boat you choose you can race against others.

I have the boats I have because they are suitable for the sailing I want to do. Ok why do I have a Mirror, thats because I can't take my younder brother out in the 200 in a F3!!

Anyway, whatever boat you choose is because it suits, don't diss (?) any boat until YOU have tried it.

(I can say I didn't like the Omega but did like a Feva, thats only because I HAVE sailed them!!)  
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Mar 08 at 10:18pm
Originally posted by Jamesd

. People buy boats that have a strong fleet, not how
good the boat is, take the laser for instance, what a crap boat, but with
190k of them kicking around you can fleet race anywhere in the world.
the 200 has a strong fleet and people want to join it.



But that totally leaves aside the question about why a crap boat would
ever build a big fleet in the first place.

People didn't buy the early Lasers because they had a fleet - they bought
them because for a hiking singlehander they are in fact fast (compare
them to a Solo, Impulse or Sabre (Oz), OK, Europe, even the Finn and the
nice and vaunted Phantom are only marginally faster, Contender is little
quicker in light winds, hell even the Canoe is the same speed downwind a
lot of the time), cheap, simple, and fun.

If a boat isn't basically a fine boat - not the fastest, not the most high
tech, but a good boat - then it will very rarely get a big fleet and it will
never get a huge international one.


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