Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
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Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
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List classes of boat for sale |
Square tops |
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H2 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 26 Jul 17 Online Status: Offline Posts: 750 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: 07 Jun 22 at 7:42pm |
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The boat feels "sticky" in light winds, essentially its easy to stall the rig in light winds. We have had to learn how to flatten the fully battened sail so that the flow remains attached. This has been achieved by reducing rig tension to straighten the mast whilst also experimenting with kicker to control the roach twist. Put another way - when the H2 first came along it seemed like we could sail to our PY in medium or heavy winds but when it went light we got a total kicking in PY racing but after several years of trial and error we have found some new "gears" that keep the boat powered up as the breeze falls. Hope that helps?
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H2 #115 (sold)
H2 145 OK 2082 |
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eric_c ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 21 Jan 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 382 |
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What are the symptoms of it 'not working well' in light winds?
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eric_c ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 21 Jan 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 382 |
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See the old thread I bumped. I also found a thread about the re-hash of the RS400 rig, when they tried a square top main and rowed back to just changing the cloth: https://www.yachtsandyachting.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=7237&PN=4&title=rs400-proposed-changes Divided opinion. some were very positive about the square top, but as I recall, it looked very nice but got spanked by Merlins around the cans?
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H2 ![]() Really should get out more ![]() ![]() Joined: 26 Jul 17 Online Status: Offline Posts: 750 |
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Never had a square top before my H2 which also has a bendy carbon mast, very easy to make work in medium and strong winds but has taken us time as a class to make the rig work really well in light winds if that helps!
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H2 #115 (sold)
H2 145 OK 2082 |
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eric_c ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 21 Jan 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 382 |
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That's just area high up though? You can think of a square top as either a triangular sail with roach added by a long top batten, or as a triangle with the top cut off. You could get the same light air performance with a taller mast and more triangular sail? It's all comparative and with a SMOD you don't really have a sensible framework to say square top is 'better'. Better performace per sq ft of sail? Better performance within the limits of mast length? Better performance within a £ budget? In a development class, we're talking about best performance within an arbitrary set of rules which 'tax' roach to arbitrary degrees. So what baseline do we use when evaluating a square top's all round performance? Presumably what we want is a rig which keeps the heeling moment constant as the wind increases above the design point of the crew hiking/trapezing to the max? Is that more about the squareness of the top or the characteristics of the mast etc? Can an elliptical sail ever be as good in this respect? How do we model this when designing a rig? How many rigs are actually rigorously designed and how many are just a case of sketching a sail and see how it goes?
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ChrisI ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Aug 10 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 143 |
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There's no question that for us a square top rather than a pin head is not fashion but a key part of the design - in light wind conditions and esp when tide and wind are from the same direction we go forwards when other boats are going backwards.
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eric_c ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 21 Jan 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 382 |
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If you're thinking about e.g. Dart 18, there is no kicker, but high leach tension with a 6:1 main sheet on a traveller? Easing sheet is more like easing the vang on a dinghy?
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eric_c ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 21 Jan 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 382 |
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Weight aloft is also worth thinking about, if you can put the same sail area mostly as high up with a fat head sail on a shorter mast, that is a big saving in pitching moment, which will help perforamce in choppy sea.
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ChrisI ![]() Posting king ![]() ![]() Joined: 09 Aug 10 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 143 |
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But doesn't the 'gust response' you get in a cat with a stiff aluminium mast come from the fact there is no kicker tensioning the leach i.e. the gust hits and the mainsail clew rises slightly (and comes inboard slightly) opening the top of the sail...? Edited by ChrisI - 07 Jun 22 at 4:16pm |
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eric_c ![]() Far too distracted from work ![]() Joined: 21 Jan 18 Online Status: Offline Posts: 382 |
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Mozzy makes some good points. I'd add that cats developed their rigs mostly without the masthead asy's that need a lot of stays to resist the forward halyard tension. The upper shrouds on a skiff rig should be making the mast tip move back and not to leeward? These issues make a lot of pre-bend in the upper mast a sound approach?
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