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    Posted: 05 Jan 21 at 10:24am
How does an automated system shorten course?
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Sam.Spoons View Drop Down
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Posts: 3400 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Sam.Spoons Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 21 at 10:59am
Originally posted by A2Z

How does an automated system shorten course?

Simple enough to set a max race duration then generate an algorithm* to estimate finish times and pick a suitable gap in the fleet to fire off the shorten course signal.

* At least I'm guessing it is simple enough for anybody clever enough to design the system...  Big smile
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davidyacht View Drop Down
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Posts: 1345 		Post Options Post Options   Quote davidyacht Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 21 at 11:00am
Whilst there is some thread drift, a more general discussion on No Race Officer sailing is no bad thing.  I believe that the increased demands required by two up rescue boat cover and the perceived for more rescue boats draws from the pool for those available for duties ... and if people think that they are doing a disproportionate number of duties they will walk away from the club.

So reducing the number of people "in the box" is going to have to happen, particularly to accommodate handicap racing.

Many clubs like ours have bespoke sound signal and light systems, and simple systems like Autohoot can facilitate running races two up ... and a stretch one up.

As has been indicated elsewhere, non-paper systems for recording results and calculating handicap results represent the greatest challenge.  Sailwave seems to be the default solution, but imo is intimidating to the typical race team, to make it work reliably you end up using pencil, paper and a clock and hand the results to a volunteer results officer (ours resigned due to the hassle from members) or an club employee, which inevitably creates a lag, in our case of several days.

So I would suggest that the real area to home in on is providing a really easy interface for recording handicap race times and pushing them through to Sailwave, which does not scare off the typical Assistant RO.  Something like the touch screens used in bars and restaurants on a tablet or phone, would be ideal.  It probably exists.

This would get your typical club race officer requirement down to 1.

I should add that we were running very satisfactory races with six Solos last summer using rabbit starts and finishing by rounding a nominated leeward mark with no race officers or rescue boats.  Probably had a higher quality of racing than our typical organised club race ... frankly it is the handicap racing that messes everything up.
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Posts: 1459 		Post Options Post Options   Quote sargesail Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 21 at 1:40pm
I think the automation of time taking (or at least the ability) to check is a beautiful thing.

At one club where I was a member the start and finish were automated: when you pressed the hooter the clock noted the time. Very easy to get boats down accurately: then just needed to make sure you subtracted 3 minutes for the second flight to start when transferring times onto the paper sheet to go with sail numbers.

Doesn’t cope well with dead heats though.

I guess that I’m in the halfway house overall. Nothing beats the fix of a good celestial fix, unless it’s making passage and the expected landfall without recourse to the GPS. So too calculator calculating the results: there’s a strange excitement in guessing whether Joe Bloggs beat Fred Smith as you run the calculation.
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Posts: 147 		Post Options Post Options   Quote polc1410 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 21 at 7:33pm
Originally posted by davidyacht

Whilst there is some thread drift, a more general discussion on No Race Officer sailing is no bad thing.  I believe that the increased demands required by two up rescue boat cover and the perceived for more rescue boats draws from the pool for those available for duties ... and if people think that they are doing a disproportionate number of duties they will walk away from the club.
So reducing the number of people "in the box" is going to have to happen, particularly to accommodate handicap racing.
Many clubs like ours have bespoke sound signal and light systems, and simple systems like Autohoot can facilitate running races two up ... and a stretch one up.
As has been indicated elsewhere, non-paper systems for recording results and calculating handicap results represent the greatest challenge.  Sailwave seems to be the default solution, but imo is intimidating to the typical race team, to make it work reliably you end up using pencil, paper and a clock and hand the results to a volunteer results officer (ours resigned due to the hassle from members) or an club employee, which inevitably creates a lag, in our case of several days.
So I would suggest that the real area to home in on is providing a really easy interface for recording handicap race times and pushing them through to Sailwave, which does not scare off the typical Assistant RO.  Something like the touch screens used in bars and restaurants on a tablet or phone, would be ideal.  It probably exists.
This would get your typical club race officer requirement down to 1.
I should add that we were running very satisfactory races with six Solos last summer using rabbit starts and finishing by rounding a nominated leeward mark with no race officers or rescue boats.  Probably had a higher quality of racing than our typical organised club race ... frankly it is the handicap racing that messes everything up.


Does indeed already exist

It's called DSRC - dinghy sailing race control

An Android app

It will do the start

The finish

The PY result (and export to Sailwave for series)

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Posts: 210 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ClubRacer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 21 at 8:07pm
Originally posted by davidyacht


So I would suggest that the real area to home in on is providing a really easy interface for recording handicap race times and pushing them through to Sailwave, which does not scare off the typical Assistant RO.  Something like the touch screens used in bars and restaurants on a tablet or phone, would be ideal.  It probably exists.

This would get your typical club race officer requirement down to 1.

That would be the ideal solution but it still needs setting up by someone. What would be nice is if sailwave could talk back to the software and give you a choice of competitors to select as taking part


Having well over 100 possible entries to choose from each finish would be impossible to do timely and inputting in 20 before each race begins is going to be a real challenge for the once a yearers


What about back ups in case something goes wrong? 



Don't think it would stop you needing 2 people when you have 15 boats + as you still need one person with the head down inputting commands (finding and clicking the correct boat/ writing times and sail numbers) and another calling whats happening on the water


Edited by ClubRacer - 05 Jan 21 at 8:16pm
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Posts: 147 		Post Options Post Options   Quote polc1410 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 21 at 8:33pm
It can!

DSRC can take a competitor list from Sailwave

Or a sign on screen

Or a web form

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Posts: 147 		Post Options Post Options   Quote polc1410 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05 Jan 21 at 11:00pm
Originally posted by A2Z

How does an automated system shorten course?


Minimum race duration is surely the answer!...

Up to you to know how long you have raced.

If the race duration is 30mins and you cross at 29:59 you do an extra lap. If it's 30:01 you are done. No hoots (the neighbors will be thrilled)

Now you may be able to game it... Spot the wind dropping. Know it's 29:55 and luff up for a bit so you cross 30:01 knowing your average lap time will be OK compared to the guy 5 seconds ahead of you who no has to do another Lap in failing wind... Life sucks. It's handicap racing not teh world champs
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Posts: 1151 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Brass Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 21 at 1:03am
Originally posted by 423zero

Paper and pencil not going to crash, flags not going to be 'someone forgot to put them on charge', far less to go wrong. Mobile signal crap at my club, WiFi long way from water.


They actually can.

We had a starter who shot away his P Flag and flag halyard with the shotgun.

He was left with no P Flag and no halyard to put one on.
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Posts: 3420 		Post Options Post Options   Quote 423zero Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06 Jan 21 at 7:27am
Wow, just thinking what Rangers would say if we tried to start our races with a shotgun  Angry wouldn't get 'sound the hooter longer, couldn't hear it' even though hooter is a courtesy.
Robert
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