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blaze720 View Drop Down
Really should get out more
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Joined: 28 Sep 05
Location: United Kingdom
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Posts: 1635 		Post Options Post Options   Quote blaze720 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: RS aero
    Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 10:24am
Those the Gods wish to destroy ... they made mad first !

Seriously both *ero's look to be fine and all the sniping,' tub-thumping' and 'bull' on here and on other forums ain't going to make a jot of difference as to which one prevails in the longer term.  Both sets of owners and would-be owners might find it very interesting to review current contributions on threads and comments like this in say a couple of years.... 'eye of the beholder' stuff surely ?

In the meantime since many seemingly find the Blaze irresistible as some sort of  benchmark (why?- It is VERY different in so many ways) I, with my own obvious preference, might humbly suggest you also try or revisit  the Blaze .. or Fire .. or Halo.  Not necessarily 'better' at all whatever that is, just different.  

Whatever you sail ...or want to ..... just enjoy it and don't fret too much when others get satisfaction with something different.  Be pleased you have a choice - Jeffers take on this is about right in my book.

Mike L.
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Null View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 May 14
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 10:33am
Originally posted by Rupert

Re reading the article, it is a quiote by an enthusiastic Chelmarsh member after a trial sail in an article written by Chelmarsh SC. Not to be taken as gospel, I'd say. But if that is the amount of enthusiasm being shown by lots of club members for a new boat - so much so they have an instant fleet - then I'd say both boat and club are going to do well.
 
Rupert i completely agree with this.  I get grief, because I am like the chap at Chelmarsh a really excited consumer who is chuffed to bits with his purchase.  I genuinely am.  I expect the Chelmarsh boys to feel the same.  Its human nature!
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 10:53am
Originally posted by Old Timer

Originally posted by SimonW99

I can absolutely testify that an aero 9 in flat water and a decent clean corridor of breeze can be made to plane 'upwind' because I have done it on a couple of occasions. I have no idea ...

I suspect what you experienced wasn't planing upwind but more a nice turn of speed "upwind" i.e. a fetch  ... the physics of this design would not support that unless you are some super human specimen who is very very very tall and can hike like a loon ...

There is endless debate about what is planing and even those well versed in hydrodynamics will rarely completely agree, but after 35 years in dinghies I do at least have an idea. When you accelerate to a point where there is no release wave, the hull lifts and you move to a noticeable different level of speed, I , like most would consider that planing in common parliance.

Jo and Dan could I am sure give you a technical description. Get in a 9 , find some flat water and 12 to 14 knots of clear air then free off , hike like hell and see what you call it Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 11:03am
See what you call it... Fun!
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Null View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 May 14
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 11:10am
I guess ignoring the sniping for one moment.  It all depends entirely how you define upwind and planing.
 
By some of the examples used above where people talk about freeing off, means that you are reducing your VMG and as such moving closer and closer to a fine reach.  So actually planing upwind can be a very, very broad description.  I certainly wouldnt consider any footing off upwind 'Planing' as even remotely similar to what goes on with high performance boats such as fireballs 505, international 14's.
 
Should be a good thread in its own right. Away from all the sh*t flinging.
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Old Timer View Drop Down
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Joined: 05 Jun 13
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Posts: 370 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 2:13pm
Originally posted by Null

I guess ignoring the sniping for one moment.  It all depends entirely how you define upwind and planing.
 
By some of the examples used above where people talk about freeing off, means that you are reducing your VMG and as such moving closer and closer to a fine reach.  So actually planing upwind can be a very, very broad description.  I certainly wouldnt consider any footing off upwind 'Planing' as even remotely similar to what goes on with high performance boats such as fireballs 505, international 14's.
 
Should be a good thread in its own right. Away from all the sh*t flinging.

To plan upwind I think you really need a trapeze boat ... 
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Null View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 May 14
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by Old Timer

Originally posted by Null

I guess ignoring the sniping for one moment.  It all depends entirely how you define upwind and planing.
 
By some of the examples used above where people talk about freeing off, means that you are reducing your VMG and as such moving closer and closer to a fine reach.  So actually planing upwind can be a very, very broad description.  I certainly wouldnt consider any footing off upwind 'Planing' as even remotely similar to what goes on with high performance boats such as fireballs 505, international 14's.
 
Should be a good thread in its own right. Away from all the sh*t flinging.

To plan upwind I think you really need a trapeze boat ... 
 
FWIW, i actually agree with you.  But i class upwind as beating im guessing you do too.  Perhaps i am being a little old fashion.  But when i see what other people class as planing upwind i consider it fine reaching. 
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 Aug 04
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 2:30pm
What will really matter once the boats start to race in big fleets is VMG - if you only have to crack off a few degrees to go much faster and get to the mark sooner when it is blowing, then the boat can be said to plane upwind. If you have to crack off onto a fine reach and end up well behind at the top mark, then really it can't be said to do so.

Which doesn't mean it wouldn't be fun when either you aren't racing or you've over stood the mark!
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
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Null View Drop Down
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Joined: 11 May 14
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Posts: 745 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Null Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 2:41pm
Again Rupert.  I absolutely agree.
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iiitick View Drop Down
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Joined: 04 Jun 14
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Posts: 478 		Post Options Post Options   Quote iiitick Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Oct 14 at 3:19pm
It has always been said that Tasar would plane upwind. On the cards it should, efficient rig, very light wide boat, but we never saw it lake sailing. For us pointing is always king and there is no way of achieving it unless you crack off a few points and miss the mark.
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