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elzorillo View Drop Down
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    Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 3:57pm
The majority of  the 'beginner' members at my club have large heavy boats ie visions/bahias/xenons. Some have even raced them with moderate success too in the last couple of years (handicap of course). Never heard any of them have any reservations about their choice.

 


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transient View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Quote transient Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 4:16pm
....and of course a beginners boat would be doomed from a marketing point of view. Sailing schools might buy them I suppose but as a "Newbie adult sailors first boat" I don't think any one would touch it with a bargepole.

Perhaps a boat with add on extras to make it faster and more exciting as skills develop, mind you, that can be achieved with something like the V3k or L2. Don't use the kite until you're ready for it, same with the trap.

At the end of the day though I'm with Winging it, there simply isn't a need for an easy skills drag racing beginners boat. If the odd beginner does want an instant adrenaline rush show them a cat.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 5:25pm
Originally posted by transient

At the end of the day though I'm with Winging it, there simply isn't a need for an easy skills drag racing beginners boat. If the odd beginner does want an instant adrenaline rush show them a cat.


Exactly.

Chris249; what is this poly class you describe?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 6:02pm
Tasar?
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 6:03pm
I assumed it was a windsurfer of some sort.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Old Timer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 6:06pm
here is some research on what a newbie is getting pedalled ...


Look through that lot and you will see lots of beginner friendly kit and not a foiling Moth in sight ...

Is the sport really guilty of pushing elite kit to newbies?

The only skiff I could see was http://www.minorcasailing.co.uk/ but this is perhaps more of a high end resort anyway ....
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Post Options Post Options   Quote craiggo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 6:10pm
Originally posted by Chris 249



Originally posted by craiggo


<span style="line-height: 1.4;">I think so many people end up calling time on sailing because they buy the wrong boat for the club they join. Partly its because they believe the piece of plastic they sailed off of a beach on their summer holiday constitutes a racing dinghy... </span>
I'm not meaning to have a go at you, but isn't saying that a plastic boat designed for new sailors isn't suitable for racing going to discourage new blood in the sport?
If people are discouraged from sailing simpler, cheaper and tougher boats then will they move into other designs or will they just give up? Judging from more successful sports, it appears to be the latter.
I may be biased as apart from a fair amount of high-performance kit, I sail what is probably the oldest poly class in the world. Our regattas regularly attract guys who have been #1 in the 18 Foot SKiff "worlds" and another who is a skiff builder who was #1 in the 18 Footer Grand Prix days with Julian B; #1 in Europe and #2 in the world in Tornadoes; a 470 Olympian (actually we had a 470 gold medallist last regatta as well, just for fun); a Radial world champ and Yngling Olympian; four other Olympic team members and an Oly trials runner up, and we used to have two guys who are now top 5 in the Moth worlds as well as another guy from the 18 Footer podium.
The fact that this bunch enjoy sailing a poly hull seems to indicate that they don't have to be for beginners only. In the early years of the dinghy boom the Int 14, N12 and MR guys were quite snooty aboujt Ents, GPs and the other plywood beginner boats that created the dinghy boom. Maybe the plastic boats could be the next wave if we welcomed them?
 



Fully understand your point Chris, but the issue is that many people sail on holiday in Picos, Topaz etc. Then buy one because they are cheap and join a club. They then find that no one else has this type of boat at the club. It's then hard to integrate them and if not careful they fall by the wayside. Buying into an established class provides you with a ready made social network and unfortunately that doesn't exist for a lot of the holiday rotomoulds. If you start talking about 2000s they run away when you tell them how much they cost. If you suggest other more traditional classes you invariably get them buying £250 sh*tboxes which they can't maintain so they give up.
I would honestly love to know how winging it, is able to get beginner's to buy the right boats, as its a real problem for us.

As for boats like moths, 700s, skiffs and 49ers they have their place but there are relatively few people who expect to be able to sail one as a beginner. I think the majority aspire to consider themselves competent enough to warrant getting something a bit newer in the class they enter.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote RS400atC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 7:23pm
The only issue I can see is the big distributors flogging tupperware boats to gullible people at boat shows.
Most of these people would be better buying a used wayfarer, Laser, L2k or whatever populates the medium handicap fleet.
But some people are averse to secondhand stuff, and some people will buy anything with a glossy brochure, attractive sales staff and easy finance.

Some newcomers could do better by spending less on the boat and more on some training.

A point raised by Saint Frank in one of his books, it is very hard to find a sailing coach. The world is knee deep in golf coaches, tennis coaches etc. But try sorting out a coaching session 1:1 in a dinghy any weekday in Portsmouth?
This affects improvers, returners and anyone wanting to learn a bit, not just beginners.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 7:30pm
Originally posted by Old Timer

Originally posted by transient

At the end of the day though I'm with Winging it, there simply isn't a need for an easy skills drag racing beginners boat. If the odd beginner does want an instant adrenaline rush show them a cat.


Exactly.

Chris249; what is this poly class you describe?

Or get them to crew for somebody in something like an 800 to get their early in sailing career thrills. And that is exactly what happens at the sailing schools / holidays in the med where the instructors take people for thrill rides.
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Post Options Post Options   Quote E.J. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 27 Jun 13 at 8:36pm
But as winging it has said numerous time the majority don't want that. Having come into sailing later than my teens the thing I remember wanting to do after completing the basic courses was 'join in'. The draw was not the thrill of the top end stuff; it was just the beauty of sail on water. For me this meant joining the back of the most popular fleet; the Laser. I just want to sail what other were. Luckily and unsurprisingly the class fleets at clubs are of the Solo/laser/200 ilk, Big fleets of mustos/moths/14s are rarer and so the route is fairly clear. In this way the club system should be seen as a positive, I certainly found it to be the best part.

It would be good have seen a massive fleet of easy to sail, quick and sexy boats that beginner can use; fairly impossible to design, but aspirational all the same.

I suppose a gentleman coming from the top end of a thrilling water sport such as windsurfing will have a different view of 'entry level' to someone such as me who can just about swim, to me the Laser appeared to be the pinnacle of boat perfection as I had no context. Context is the key, most adults coming into the sport will not be aware of what 20+ knots in control feels like, those that do might need more excitement than a laser 2000.

I hope one day that the aspirational entry level dinghy that iGRF believes in does exists, but I fear that the path to that day has many incremental stages that will frustrate and ultimately it wont seem that great because the top end will be even further away.
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