Edition
-(1)-202408140552.gif)
Boats for sale
| Laser 28 - Excellent example of this great design Hamble le rice |
 |
| Laser 140101 Tynemouth |
 |
| Rossiter Pintail Mortagne sur Gironde, near Bordeaux |
 |
List classes of boat for sale |
Top dog |
Post Reply 
|
Page <1 910111213 25> |
| Author |
 Share Topic Printable Version Delicious Digg Facebook Furl Google MySpace Newsvine reddit StumbleUpon Translate Twitter Windows Live Yahoo Bookmarks Topic Search  Topic Options
|
|
paolochilds 
Newbie 
Joined: 29 Mar 11 Location: Southampton Online Status: Offline Posts: 36 |
 Post Options
 Quote Reply
 Topic: Top dogPosted: 08 Sep 11 at 12:31pm |
|
|
I think that given the circumstances I back what Andy did and the fact he managed to make it work. Given the circumstances he was in I think he did all he could.
The processes behind it were flawed and resulted in that conclusion. Maybe a cop out of an answer, but we can only play what cards we have been given. Just for the records Geoff finished 3rd in 'that race' so average points that were less would also have not been fair on the other sailors. a flaw in the average points decision for sure
|
||
|
Paul Childs
RS Sailing Sales Team and RS100 Class Development Officer |
||
 |
||
|
Neptune
Really should get out more 
Joined: 08 Jun 09 Location: Berkshire United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 1314 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Sep 11 at 12:56pm |
|
|
what happened in that race?
|
||
|
Musto Skiff and Solo sailor
|
||
|
||
|
JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Sep 11 at 1:04pm |
|
|
To my mind average points should only be awarded if there is no finish place available.
But the problem still exists. To sail someone down the fleet to give them a bad result in one race while you get a bad result in that race too is legitimate. To manipulate the system so that you get a bad result in one race but they get a bad result in two races might not currently be against the rules, but its certainly a corruption of what redress is supposed to achieve, and it would be a very good thing if the guidlines for redress were revised. In that situation I think the PC should have reopened the redress hearing after the last race, invited all competitors to participate, and after hearing what they all had to say do something like fix the redress for Carveth at something sensible like 3rd or 4th and maybe offer Davis average points for the last race. Edited by JimC - 08 Sep 11 at 1:05pm |
||
|
||
|
RS400atC
Really should get out more
Joined: 04 Dec 08 Online Status: Offline Posts: 3011 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Sep 11 at 2:44pm |
|
It would not be fair to change the redress after the last race. Maybe before it. People knew the night before that sailing Geoff and Graham down the fleet was a possibility. So who should take responsibility for the outcome? |
||
|
||
|
ob1
Groupie 
Joined: 21 Feb 11 Online Status: Offline Posts: 72 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Sep 11 at 2:48pm |
|
|
it sounds to me that the PC could be regarded as having been a bit short-sighted and having made an understandable error of judgement when allocating redress in the first place, but that beyond that, the result is what it is. No point re-opening the hearing after the last race unless the intention is to change the winner. If you want to change the winner then change the winner - if not, then don't change the winner...
the more positive thing to do is review whether the rules and guidance on redress are OK or should be revised
Edited by ob1 - 08 Sep 11 at 3:04pm |
||
|
||
|
JimC
Really should get out more
Joined: 17 May 04 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 6662 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Sep 11 at 4:07pm |
|
Why not? Couldn't possibly be as unfair as not changing it was. |
||
|
||
|
Rupert
Really should get out more
Joined: 11 Aug 04 Location: Whitefriars sc Online Status: Offline Posts: 8956 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Sep 11 at 5:12pm |
|
Possibly not fair, but as far as I can see Andy Davis was sailing by the rules as they stood. Changing the rules after the fact seems to open a whole new can of worms.
My only real trouble with it is that what has been happening at Olympic level and has moved into the top end of National fleets will be copied by juniors, keeping the aggression needed but loosing the skill, the timing and the ability to separate what happens on the water to what happens on it. One Oppie dad decks another because little Jonny was match raced out of 3rd place at Little Snoring sc's Oppie open meeting...
I blame Big Bad Ben...
|
||
|
Firefly 2324, Puffin 229, Minisail 3446 Mirror 70686
|
||
|
||
|
rogue
Really should get out more
Joined: 04 Dec 08 Location: United Kingdom Online Status: Offline Posts: 978 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Sep 11 at 6:45pm |
|
|
Wasn't it the Brazilian who despatched not quite so big bad Ben in Sydney?
Match racing is a bonafide part of the sport- even at local level when you sub-race the same bloke in the same class as you when you're both racing on PY. |
||
|
||
|
marky
Groupie
Joined: 12 Sep 07 Online Status: Offline Posts: 52 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Sep 11 at 7:39pm |
|
One of the reasons why Race Teams are now encouraged not to take out OCS or BFD boats at the the windward or leeward mark is so that in Redress situatons they have a finish place that can be re-given (other reasons are keeping the RIB's off the course, getting in the way, mistaken identity etc + for keeping the fleet in one place (not letting single boats sail home alone). In my opinion the Protest Committee should of given Geoff Carveth his third place back.
|
||
|
||
|
Contender 541
Really should get out more
Joined: 05 Dec 05 Location: Burton on Trent Online Status: Offline Posts: 1402 |
Post Options
Quote Reply
Posted: 08 Sep 11 at 8:06pm |
|
|
When we sign on to an event we agree to sail by the rules, obey the SI's and the NOR.
If the rules allow something - no matter how unpopular - then it is fair game.
It could be argued that the 'Spirit of the rules' was broken, but how is this the case, when we have an active match racing circuit at all levels - which encourages the use of he rules to their logical limit?
The PRO (or OOD) has to make the judgements that are correct at the time of making them - he/she does not have a crystal ball so cannot see into the future and must not make a judgement based on what someone may or may not do in days to come
The racer knows where they are in the overall scoring and can choose whatever course of action is in their armoury to achieve their goals. I have certainly looked at the scoring in the past and realised that if I beat XXX by 2 places, I will leapfrog them in the standings. In my case this is usually for placings in the mid 20's but if I can, I will place a tack on a course that will inconvenience my opponent
IMHO - won fair and square.
If the rules are changed in the future to stop this, then okay. For now, they are the rules and this is legal
|
||
|
When you find a big kettle of crazy it's probably best not to stir it - Pointy Haired Boss
Crew on 505 8780 |
||
|
||
|
Post Reply
|
Page <1 910111213 25> |
| Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Bulletin Board Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 9.665y
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy
Copyright ©2001-2010 Web Wiz
Change your personal settings, or read our privacy policy