Alto - Why?

Originally posted by Bootscooter Originally posted by G.R.F Originally posted by alstorer The Comets clearly sell well enough that the company hasn't gone bust yet, but is there ANY class racing anywhere for them? I relaise this isn't the be-all and end-all, especially given the AltO is squarely aimed at the handicap club racer, but still, it would help the class to get a circuit of some sort going ASAP. I'm sure if enough of us buy them, then we could band together, form a class and run the odd event, I know a company or two that would sponsor them, but like it says, this is a grown ups club racer as I see it. It would be a pleasant change to have something develop naturally where folk can learn the ropes without being Atheletes SI's or drop outs from some RYA youf squad. A class formed around a boat that is tactical as well as reasonably quick, I know I'm still a newbie here, but i do wonder if you lot sometimes miss the bigger picture, you let a fine forum like this get dominated by kids, luddites and stuffy rule mongers then have endless discussions as to why folk aint sailing.. Something new pops up, there never seems to be a sense of optimism just a hundred reasons it wont work, the RS500 being a case to point, there's nothing wrong with it, but hell was it damned here. This boat is one guys dream, he's had the balls to go build it, the British way, there's no container trip to Cobra or Brazil, no plastic pump linked to a rotomould, just good old Rondar doing it the way they always did. Now he doesn't have to build hundreds, twentyfive this year will do just fine, then maybe twentyfive more next year. I'm glad I'm going to get one early, it'll have teething problems of that much I'm sure, but I don't mind, I like new ideas, especially if they're within my motor skill set.   I'm not sure I agree with your turn of phrase, GRF, but I totally agree with your sentiment.   I'd be prepared to wager a fair sum that the vast majority of the "Doom'n'Gloom" mongers on here are; a)  under 30 b)  under 13 stone c)  perfectly happy tear-arsing around in skiff/moth/cherub etc with your hair on fire!   The majority of people you see sailing are probably doing exactly the same as you, and consequently, whilst you're out competing in your TT series/class racing, you don't notice the thousands of slightly older people out sailing every weekend up and down the country in Ents, GPs, Wayfarers, Wanderers, and even the likes of 420s.  These are the people that would see that this boat could give them the higher performance thrills that they'd like, without having the astronomical costs associated with ownership of many of the more traditional high performance dinghies.  And without having to be aged 19 and made of rubber!     There is a massive potential market there, and I hope Oldarn can make it work.  As I said earlier, I dont have the finances to buy one right now, but if I did, I'd be sorely  tempted.   As an aside, Oldarn I may try to give you a call sometime to see if I could come for a play sometime, and I may possibly be able to offer some assistance with "exposure" to a quite sizable potential market!

 

That is one of the most acurate posts i have ever read on this forum!

 

The Alto isn't targeted at the typical spotty faced day dreaming tool that graces these pages, it is aimed at the "Young at heart" club racer, and i think it does a superb job too, because this market place is filled with some old girls now!!!  By the sounds of it that is what GRF is after, and bloody hell funnily enouh thats what he has bought! People here slate boats for being made buy Laser, RS and Topper, but as soon as an independant builder actually makes something which aeals to its specific market we all piss all over it!

Originally posted by foaminatthedeck   Do the Rs500 and the Alto have similar crew weights as the 500 looks like it would suit lighter sailors while the Alto looks like it may need a bit more weight?GRF sound to me like you have not mastered the sysmetric spinnaker( (its not realy old fashoned just different) I think that once some has got the hang of one it improves there assametric skills noticably. If your in the SW I'd be happy to take you out and show you it appeal, PM me.

Thanks for your kind offer, no, clearly I haven't mastered it, I've never
been in a boat that uses one, but in my recent career I've had fabulous
leads destroyed by them. I'm lucky enough to be a capable tactical
upwind sailor, but not good enough downwind in an Assym to fend off
well sailed Symmettric 505's & 470's. Our courses are inevitably triangle
sausage, I can be half way up the 2nd beat before the next boat rounds,
yet still be reeled in by the bottom of the run particularly if the wind
drops or is iffy to begin with.
The RS500 to use windsurf speak is a low volume boat with a big rig,
probably to big. I reckon it was designed to be used by a lower crew
weight with its standard rig, but given the larger rig because of the
current "macho boy" requirement to be marketed in that direction, all that
does is narrow it's wind range. Every racing windsurfer knows that
putting a big rig on a low volume hull isn't as efficient as the correct size
rig on a higher volume hull in normal displacement speeds.
So I'm looking for a higher volume hull to cope with lighter winds
(regardless of crew weight) and being wider it'll also provide better
stability in gnarly seas which we do get quite often but at the end of the
day more volume gives a wider wind range which means more TOW (time
on the water) racing, we wont have to stay on the beach and watch.

As to Assym over Symm spinnaker I guess that's the Mac v's PC
argument, why make it difficult now there's an easier route, just make the
easier route more versatile, which I hope will prove the case with this
Alto.

Originally posted by Guest#260 Originally posted by G.R.F You wouldn't understand, you're a dinghy sailor by nature, they never did get commerce, it's why us windsurfers had to show em how to do it in the first place.   So how is the windsurfing industry doing in the UK now?

Well after what thirty years of creating the Surf Clothing Industry, the
Mountain Bike Industry, Snowboarding, providing a lot of retailers with a
good living and healthy bank balances, spinning off the RS organisation
and more recently the kitesurfing business it's now being used yet again
as a springboard for SUP (Stand UP Paddleboarding), don't even go there
it's just plain wrong.
The supply side of the business is currently suffering, the sport as you are
probably well aware has trod the path you lot are now treading of
promoting a planing only performance existence to younger agile types
who now find kitesurfing far more appealing.
So lets just say its regrouping, it'll recover. There are still over ninety
active accounts promoting the sport in some form or other and I doubt
there are that many dinghy shops.

So how's the Musto Skiff training going have you lot managed to master a
force five yet without being 100 kgs and a head made of prime
beef.. I notice Doddsy with what 10 years of Olympic Class training?
Keeps his in the boat park a lot and only managed 3 months before he
trashed his mast and returned to the Laser..

Olympic Class training won't really help with a musto though.. Its a whole different thing in a way.. He probably would have been good if he stuck at it till he got the hang of needing 4 hands but only having 2..

Not many go to a Musto without getting pretty wet to begin with..

The Key point to come out of all of this IMHO, is maximising time on the water.  I for one made a considered decision to step back form the more extreme end and sail boats which do exactly that!! 

Now if the Alto maximises GRF (or any punters TOW) it's good for him and good for his local club.  More to the point I've yet to be beaten over a handicap series by a performance boat, why simple really cause I finish every race somewhere near the top.  Now ultimately for the type of racing GRF does a Sym spinnaker is ideal, but only if he has a crew who knows how to use it or time train one. Otherwise the comprimise offered by the Alto would seem to be the way foward.

Whether this boat will suceed nationally we will see in time but if it is every thing any of it's owner want then it will have suceeded for them.