The predictability of PYAG

Originally posted by Chris 249 Originally posted by transient Just comparing the 2015/2016 "Races" figure on the list. There seems to be a large reduction in numbers right across the board. Anyone got any ideas on that? It's impossible.  Many leading figures in sailing and the sailing industry have been assuring us for a few years that the modern era of hyper-performance boats would lead us to a new nirvana of booming public interest in which so many  new boats would hit the water that (if not for the fact that they will be foiling above the water) the sea level would rise by metres. If the fleets were dropping in the UK (as I think they have been doing in Oz over the last couple of years, after a period of apparent stability) then the hypesters would be wrong, and that couldn't happen could it?

Originally posted by getafix It would be nice to see the word "stupidity" taken out of this thread's title.  I have posted on this thread and tried to make a valid point, as have others.  I know I don't want to be associated with calling anyone on the PYAG "stupid" and I doubt most others would either.

Originally posted by getafix ......  Still waiting to hear from all the people sailing at the many clubs where RS400's are regularly "handing-it" to Merlins to justify that gap

Having had a few goes in the Merlin, my view is that in most hands, the Merlin is a much slower boat around the (average) course.
The difference is they are sailed by a different group of people.
You only look at the relative effort required for Mr Craig to win the Nationals to understand the difference between what is largely a SMOD fleet of club sailors and the who's who of sailing that is the top half of Merlinism.
But they are also disparate boats that don't really race brilliantly together. A Merlin is a weapon when pointing that bit higher pays dividends, and can be fast up wind, and goes straight to the point on a run. But when a bit more length to carry weight well and a biggish asymmetric are earning their keep, the 400 will be faster in most hands.
Brute force vs sophistication?

I'm not sure about Merlins, but I'm not aware of any boat that gives good PY racing against 400s without strong influence for windstrength and course. 4k's are OK to race against but they're going to win in a good breeze and we'll menace them in the light. Perhaps a light team in a Buzz is the closest match, but don't even ask about their PY.

So we stick to taking the other 400s seriously and regarding the PY as a scheme to share the prizes around a bit in club racing. Is that a bad thing?

Looking at our club's 2015 results, the big message is, if you want more chance of a prize, finish more races. That has far more influence than a 3% PY shift. (and which will make you a better sailor?)

Originally posted by RS400atC Originally posted by getafix ......  Still waiting to hear from all the people sailing at the many clubs where RS400's are regularly "handing-it" to Merlins to justify that gap Having had a few goes in the Merlin, my view is that in most hands, the Merlin is a much slower boat around the (average) course. The difference is they are sailed by a different group of people. You only look at the relative effort required for Mr Craig to win the Nationals to understand the difference between what is largely a SMOD fleet of club sailors and the who's who of sailing that is the top half of Merlinism. But they are also disparate boats that don't really race brilliantly together. A Merlin is a weapon when pointing that bit higher pays dividends, and can be fast up wind, and goes straight to the point on a run. But when a bit more length to carry weight well and a biggish asymmetric are earning their keep, the 400 will be faster in most hands. Brute force vs sophistication? I'm not sure about Merlins, but I'm not aware of any boat that gives good PY racing against 400s without strong influence for windstrength and course. 4k's are OK to race against but they're going to win in a good breeze and we'll menace them in the light. Perhaps a light team in a Buzz is the closest match, but don't even ask about their PY. So we stick to taking the other 400s seriously and regarding the PY as a scheme to share the prizes around a bit in club racing. Is that a bad thing? Looking at our club's 2015 results, the big message is, if you want more chance of a prize, finish more races. That has far more influence than a 3% PY shift. (and which will make you a better sailor?)

Originally posted by L123456 Originally posted by Mark Jardine  Agreed and done. I see you also deleted iGRFs comments also ... a far greater contribution to the discussion.

Yes but I said even worse on facebook and he can't get me there which is probably why there is often more meaningful discussion there than here.

Not a good move for an online organisation driving discussion away from a site just to assuage the sensibilities of a few who probably don't even advertise and post content even less.

Edited by iGRF - 09 Mar 16 at 2:42pm