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Nationals attendance.
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Wetabix View Drop Down
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Posts: 118 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Wetabix Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Nationals attendance.
    Posted: 25 Nov 13 at 10:24am
I know it's the middle of winter but could we try and reengage with reality here? Why on earth would anyone want to sail on lumpy sea (I am not talking about tidal lakes) in a 12 ft boat? The sort of person who sails a Lightning is probably not the sort of person that sails a Laser Radial. My guess is that they don't throw huge amounts of money at their sport and that probably includes not driving vast distances at great expense  to open meetings. I think 25 is quite a good attendance - at my first Phantom nationals (3 day event on semi lumpy water) there were 26 of us!
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 13 at 10:39am
because lumps are fun...







Edited by yellowwelly - 25 Nov 13 at 10:42am
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Rupert View Drop Down
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Posts: 8956 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Rupert Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 13 at 10:44am
Yup, lumps are fun.

The flip side of those pictures is the people who can't cope in such conditions (or don't want to), the extra expense of going somewhere where the extra safety cover is needed, the boat breakages, the long days on the water when you have to sail a mile or more to the racing area, the days when there is very little wind, and the tide means racing is cancelled.

Horses for courses.
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 13 at 10:53am
Originally posted by Rupert

Yup, lumps are fun.

The flip side of those pictures is the people who can't cope in such conditions (or don't want to), the extra expense of going somewhere where the extra safety cover is needed, the boat breakages, the long days on the water when you have to sail a mile or more to the racing area, the days when there is very little wind, and the tide means racing is cancelled.

Horses for courses.



I do accept that some boats are designed for certain inland conditions- as such why make a venue like Lyme a priority?  Thames A Raters, Norfolk Punts, British Moths etc they're river boats and whilst they make go on the sea, it's not their design objective.  Would you run a downhill MTB competition in a velodrome???  

However if we are talking about general classes- suitable for inland and sea sailing, well I think a nationals hosted at typical inland midlands/SW london puddle is a bit noddy... it's an opinion, not a fact.  And whilst I'm all for more the merrier and greater participation, the purpose of a National Championship is to find a National Champion and bring everyone together to test their skills.  If that's not really the purpose, and the directive is more geared to a 'fun event' to find the class average, then maybe 'regatta' would be a better title and to some extent, take the noddyness away as it is not pretending to be something it isn't.   
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Posts: 40 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Nipper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 13 at 10:55am
Originally posted by Wetabix

I know it's the middle of winter but could we try and reengage with reality here? Why on earth would anyone want to sail on lumpy sea (I am not talking about tidal lakes) in a 12 ft boat? The sort of person who sails a Lightning is probably not the sort of person that sails a Laser Radial. My guess is that they don't throw huge amounts of money at their sport and that probably includes not driving vast distances at great expense  to open meetings. I think 25 is quite a good attendance - at my first Phantom nationals (3 day event on semi lumpy water) there were 26 of us!
Well said Wetabix, the only thing I would add is I expect it is not only the money, but also that with the majority of the boats and sailors coming from inland venues, they and their boats could find it tough going on an open sea venue if the wind and waves get up. All aspects of a Nationals should be aimed at delivering satisfaction to the middle to lower end of the fleet, not the top 5. Having half the fleet go home with broken boats and a series of DNS's because it blew 18 knots at Weymouth for 3 days is not going to do much for anyone.  Delivering a purist " must be on the sea to provide a fair test of sailing" approach is death to a inland/family/ fun centric class like the Lightning.
If the Finns can hold their Gold Cup on Lakes, what's wrong with a Lightning Nationals at Pitsford? Their current selection of venues, Inland or coastal sheletered, looks right for the boat.
PS What is the highest turnout that Lightnings have ever had for a Nationals? I do not remember them ever being a big turnout class over the years anyway, so what is the "building them back up" issue anyway.
39 years of dinghy racing and still waiting to peak.
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yellowwelly View Drop Down
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Posts: 2003 		Post Options Post Options   Quote yellowwelly Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 13 at 10:58am
Not being funny, but 18 knots in Weymouth ain't that tricky for most people sailing a boat they are capable of sailing - even at the bottom end of a nationals fleet standard. Especially if we're talking about staying inside the harbour.... Rutland is lumpier!!!

edit: and Pitsford, Gawd bless it, is not really in the same league as Como or Garda- the closest we have to that is the Scottish Lochs or Lake District - and for novelty value, I think they can hold their own to the main sea venues around the UK.  


Edited by yellowwelly - 25 Nov 13 at 11:00am
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Blue One View Drop Down
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Posts: 317 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Blue One Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 13 at 12:06pm
 re sea v inland. look at the streaker champs sailed inland. great battle between two great sailors, tom gillard and mr rooster.

best two sailors in the fleet, finished one and two.

are people saying the result would have been different if it had been sailed on the sea or that it was a noddy champs, won by a noddy sailor? Confused



Edited by Blue One - 25 Nov 13 at 12:28pm
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tgruitt View Drop Down
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Posts: 2479 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tgruitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 13 at 12:43pm
Originally posted by Wetabix

Why on earth would anyone want to sail on lumpy sea (I am not talking about tidal lakes) in a 12 ft boat?


I can't think of anything better.... Tongue
Needs to sail more...
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Contender443 View Drop Down
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Posts: 1211 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Contender443 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 13 at 12:46pm

Maybe??

 

Streaker National Championships - 18 & 19 July 2009

Lancing SC

Results are final as of 17:52 on July 19, 2009

Overall

Sailed: 2, Discards: 0, To count: 2, Entries: 37, Scoring system: RRS App.A Low points with LSC SI mods
RankHelmNameClubR1R2Pts.
1stSteve CockerillStokes Bay SC112
2ndAlan GillardSheffield Viking SC325
3rdIan JonesDovestone SC235
4thChris CattDowns SC448
5thTom GillardSheffield Viking SC5510
Bonnie Lass Contender 1764
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JimC View Drop Down
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Posts: 6662 		Post Options Post Options   Quote JimC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Nov 13 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by Blue One

are people saying the result would have been different if it had been sailed on the sea or that it was a noddy champs, won by a noddy sailor?


I think the only person who has said that is you...

It seems to me that the National Championships ought to be a bit special, but I'm not sure I could define in what way. Three days feels like a glorified open meeting to me, I certainly wouldn't travel as far for that as a week's event.

I'm kinda interested in what folks from the north and west think... To me the big natural and semi natural lakes feel a bit special in the way that artificial reservoirs like Datchet or QM, or even the likes of Grafham don't, but is that just because they are so far away? If the wind is in the wrong direction the likes of Ullswater probably offers worse sailing than a concrete bowl, so does the artificial stuff feel more interesting for those of you who'd have to travel a long way to get to it? After all there isn't that much difference between sailing at Datchet and inside Portland harbour...
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