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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Joined: 12 Aug 11
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: V Twin
    Posted: 22 May 12 at 4:51pm
Originally posted by G.R.F.

as i recall that boat was a good few grand.

8.5... over 10 now
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L123456 View Drop Down
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Posts: 500 		Post Options Post Options   Quote L123456 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 12 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by Pierre

Are you civil servant perchance....?    Wink
 

I am, I work for a department that isn't very popular; how did you guess?

 

I have to say the below post (of which I have a screen grab) is one which stirred my interest...

 
Originally posted by G.R.F.

...whatever, the taxman paid for it anyway,
 
 


Edited by L123456 - 22 May 12 at 5:43pm
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tickler View Drop Down
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Location: Tunstead Milton
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Posts: 895 		Post Options Post Options   Quote tickler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 12 at 5:29pm
Horses for courses. I have done the fast'ish boats now for the quite life. I have just painted my Solo (which came free). It is plastic with four coats of paint, only two of them mine. It occured to me that the paint probably is heavier than a complete Cherub.......
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Max McCarthy View Drop Down
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Posts: 104 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Max McCarthy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 12 at 6:12pm
Congratulations Graeme on your boat, I think it is something to be proud of, to go with what you want to sail, rather then anything else, that the masses sail. I, in a similar fashion (I suppose) choose to sail older more unique boats for the enjoyment of sailing them, rather then buying a large production one design class boat, to sail in a large group, but there might be a less amount of enjoyment to get out of the actual boat, so I sail for enjoyment, I get a nice choice of what to sail, (as older boats are cheaper then newer ones, so I can afford the luxury of choice) I enjoy sailing them more then I would a larger production one design class (like a laser), although there are of course exceptions, but I feel that people should sail what THEY want to sail, not what the masses choose to sail. So I congratulate you on going and doing exactly that.
Vintage skol moth 3438
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Pierre View Drop Down
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Posts: 1532 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Pierre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 May 12 at 7:39pm
Originally posted by L123456

Originally posted by Pierre

Are you civil servant perchance....?    Wink
 

I am, I work for a department that isn't very popular; how did you guess?

 

I have to say the below post (of which I have a screen grab) is one which stirred my interest...

 
Originally posted by G.R.F.

...whatever, the taxman paid for it anyway,
 
 

Oh just a wild guess. 
All human life appears on the Y&Y forum it seems.
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 12 at 8:58am
Originally posted by L123456

Originally posted by Pierre

Are you civil servant perchance....?    Wink
 

I am, I work for a department that isn't very popular; how did you guess?

 

I have to say the below post (of which I have a screen grab) is one which stirred my interest...

 
Originally posted by G.R.F.

...whatever, the taxman paid for it anyway,
 
 
Confused 
https://www.ease-distribution.com/
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gordon1277 View Drop Down
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Posts: 665 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gordon1277 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 12 at 9:09am
oh lord please remind me to keep my big etc etc
Now they have a sniff, bloudhounds spring to mind.
Can you write the V TWIN down as a tax loss?
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pondmonkey View Drop Down
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Posts: 2202 		Post Options Post Options   Quote pondmonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 12 at 9:23am
I would imagine that a watersports marketing and distribution company could easily claim R&D Relief for a new sailing-related innovation and I'd happily testify this is genuine R&D and innovative, it certainly nothing like what we've seen in market to date.


Obviously the V-Twin would remain a depreciating asset on the asset register, rather than 'Graeme's Toy' and any racing in it to date could be seen as veritable product testing and not subject to Benefit In Kind like say a company car.

And for the record, no, all my own sailing expenditure is and always has been post-income tax funded, fully VAT paid where applicable and I've never considered a contra-sponsor arrangement.  
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G.R.F. View Drop Down
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Posts: 4028 		Post Options Post Options   Quote G.R.F. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 12 at 9:24am
It's on our books, under product R&D, quite legitimately and already audited and signed off, we're a marine business after all.

I wouldn't mind betting that technically pretty much every boat sold last year was somebodies tax loss, no-one appears to be making huge profits at the moment.

The EPS on the other hand is a personal acquisition and paid for from my private account and would have been a little secret had the bread knife not arisen early on Sunday morning and caught me red handed hitching up the trailer, she finding out is worse than dealing with the taxman.

The problem was further exacerbated by my true and trusty club mates explaining to her 'everyone' knew i was getting it, when she turned up for galley duty on Sunday explaining her discovery, so in area of personal fiscal sh*tstorms, the Taxman pales into insignificance against what bread knife retribution will now be visited upon me.


Edited by G.R.F. - 23 May 12 at 9:35am
https://www.ease-distribution.com/
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 May 12 at 9:33am
Originally posted by G.R.F.

 
That was forty years ago, things have moved on apace since then, there have been all manner of composite constructions, ally honey comb, nomex honeycomb, styrofoam core, epoxy sandwich over styrofoam, abs over epoxy over styro foam, there are still 4 mtr craft that are thirty years old weigh under 18 kilos and quite capable of being run up the beach, it's just a sad fact that your/our market will never support the volume that would justify the production expense to produce what we're looking for.

Then again unless there is a culture, that demands it, why bother? All the time everyone is perfectly happy to think 40 kgs is light, then it's game on for these pathetic 'garage' construction systems to continue. 

Grumpf, I have to agree about the need to make the sport user-friendly, but that's not going to achieved by burning all the old boats and forcing people into 16k GBP/$25,000 US or AUS carbon lightweights.

The lightest dinghies around (for their size) are the Moths, the 12 Foot Skiffs and the NZ R Class. They are lighter for size than boards and extremely expensive because there is no minimum weight (apart from the 12s which are about 45kg and heavily loaded). The 12 Foot Skiff bare hull costs over $20k AUS/US, which is thousands more than the 16' 505 hull, and 505s are hardly a low tech boat for poor people. It's fantasy to say that dropping minimum weights would not make boats extremely expensive - a 20,000 US dollar bare hull is not exactly cheap for a 12 foot boat!

If the "4 mtr craft that are thirty years old weigh under 18 kilos and quite capable of being run up the beach" are boards, as I suspect they are, then they are a totally different kettle of fish. Boards are inherently smaller and more lightly loaded and that lets them work despite construction that is inferior in many ways.... that's not better construction, it's basic physics.

My longboard fleet includes two customs built by Rick Naish and Harold Iggy for Robby; the bronze-medal winning Lechner from Barcelona, and two German built Mistrals. They are top class examples of board construction, and yet not one of them could take the loads imposed by a boat's rigging. They are not better than boats!

You can't ignore the factor of size and squaring rules. Take the IMCO and its dimensions of 3720 x 630 x approx 200, 235 L and 15kg. Compare it to the Laser, 4200 x1390 x approx 320, 840l volume (very, very roughly) and 57kg.... turns out that the Laser is about only 7% heavier for its size despite being a couple of decades older, and more durable in use.

You can't compare boards to boats any more than you can compare the weight of a car to the weight of a motorbike. A Pro Stock drag bike has a similar wheelbase (counting bars) to a Formula 1 car but only weighs 40% as much - does that mean that F1 technology is crud? No, it just means that one thing is inherently skinnier and lower and therefore weighs less.

I can't find any reason to say that boats are inferior in terms of things like rig technology. The fact that you are complaining about mast bend v luff curve is, to be blunt, ridiculous, because boat sailors often spend many hours working on those factors on and off the water, whereas boardsailors just tend to buy what they are told and crank it to the recommended settings no matter what the conditions. FWIW I reckon board rigs have gone backwards in terms of user-friendliness and wind range in some ways over the decades - they are certainly very heavy compared to what they could be.

Funny thing, y'know....when I was looking up the length of drag racing motorbikes I noticed how tight the rules are - in many ways, much tighter and more restrictive than in many sailing classes. Some sailors keep complaining that sailors have restrictions against development, but I have yet to find a sport with equipment of comparable cost that has such an excellent range of restrictions, from almost unlimited classes to very tight ones. And guess which end of the scale actually gets the sailors....
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