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gbrspratt View Drop Down
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Posts: 170 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gbrspratt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: New ladies skiff
    Posted: 21 Oct 11 at 6:18pm
Im not sure about the looks.... But I am pleased to see something new. Its growing on me slowly....do we know anything on the sail areas?
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SSolo View Drop Down
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Posts: 17 		Post Options Post Options   Quote SSolo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 11 at 7:13pm
i've seen it sailing a number of times - no sign at all of nose diving. they had a the fat boys try putting the weight forward of the racks and failed

Peter is a N'cl graduate, and i think spent time working at  in Oz building the Omani 100ft trimaran. now he's Ovi's in house tech/deisgner
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ham4sand View Drop Down
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Posts: 452 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ham4sand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 11 at 7:42pm
where is it sailing?
 
and i was talking about free board from the pure aspect of putting weight forward to unstick the transom :) im no american, i have built my own fast wet boat thankyou!!!!
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gbrspratt View Drop Down
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Posts: 170 		Post Options Post Options   Quote gbrspratt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 11 at 7:45pm
Would a transom that narrow need unsticking? I guess every little helps?

Edited by gbrspratt - 21 Oct 11 at 7:47pm
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rb_stretch View Drop Down
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Posts: 742 		Post Options Post Options   Quote rb_stretch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 11 at 9:20pm
Originally posted by Daniel Holman

To my mind it looks very nice ...

<snip>

she is in a big minority.
My tuppence worth.


Great observations and something I will bear in mind as my 3 daughters grow up.
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ham4sand View Drop Down
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Posts: 452 		Post Options Post Options   Quote ham4sand Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 11 at 10:02pm
every transom needs unsticking!!! unless its a canoe ended boat
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DiscoBall View Drop Down
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Posts: 305 		Post Options Post Options   Quote DiscoBall Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 11 at 10:13pm
Originally posted by fudheid

 
Its doing well because of media coverage whether mags, online, great support from the manufacturer and i want to sail one of those Dad they look cool Smile

IME with the exception of Ainslie, most kids don't really follow the big events/personalities/high performance stuff.  It's probably how much fun they have doing the sport themselves at that decides whether they stay in the sport.  Probably true for the great amount of adults who sail too - interest amongst forum posters is higher as we're a self selecting group of sailing anoraks... Shift+R improves the quality of this image. Shift+A improves the quality of all images on this page.

Originally posted by fudheid

 
NOT DISPUTING THIS, agree and think the symmetric Star class should stay, more people sail with symmetrics so why throw them unless your a female.
 

I'm not even sure what this sentence means...???  You do realise the Star is non-kite?!  And I suspect the great majority of sailors are neither symmetric/assymetric...more likely to non-kite (Lasers and Oppies just the tip of the iceberg...)

Anyway, whilst it does look an interesting boat, whether is makes it into the Olympics you can guarantee the BBC will ignore/mangle sailing in their olympic coverage.... Shift+R improves the quality of this image. Shift+A improves the quality of all images on this page. 
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Posts: 177 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Fans1024 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 11 at 10:49pm

The racks look almost as chunky as the actual boat.  It does look as though she'll be a pain in rear end sailing upwind in wind and waves.  I would imagine it would be very hard to keep the waves going down the chute.

It's not just sailing where woman are in the minority, but all sports.  If you exclude school age, what is the ratio of men to women completing/taking part in sport?  Women, as a whole, are more risk adverse, but that doesn't really explain why not that many women take part in sports.  Yes, having kids does take a lot out of your body (or so have heard) but that's only a relatively small period of your life - my sister was cycling in London (racing people off lights) at 8 months pregnant.  My other sister wants to swim the channel and I sailed various boats; 800, 49er etc and started to do freestyle snowboarding.  Are we in the minority?  Yes.  I may look like I'm in an abusive relationship after a windy weekend, but would I exchange it for my colleagues’ shopping weekend?  Hell no!

The lack of all female crews?  Well, as I’ve said, how many women take part in sports?  Also, I think you do need to look at social-economic dynamics.  Until the late eighties, men were the breadwinner which could possibly account for mixed crews, appose to all female crews.  I do think this tradition has carried over.  Whilst wages may have evened out, there is still a lack of all female crews.  I have never sailed in an all girl crew.  Does this fit the economic structure of graduation (can’t afford a boat therefore crew for people), then have kids (not enough time/not in shape) model, or maybe ‘I don’t have enough strength/weight to put the mast up/get the boat up from capsize/deal with a difficult landing?  As a girl who sails every weekend, throughout the year, I don’t know.  Answers to a postcard....
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 11 at 11:34pm
Originally posted by Daniel Holman

To my mind it looks very nice - it is evident that it was designed by someone who can "think outside the box and challenge the ideals of a succession of box rule boats." I am
Confused by those who question the freeboard - you don't expect to sail a fast boat and stay dry do you? You're soaked to the chest just launching it - what are you, American? And if you're worried about reserve bouyancy - if you're that far in then you'll already have tripped over the pole.
I reckon it's a good progressive design.
Hopefully they can build it nice and light and at a good price.
Anyhow I agree with whoever said that large scale ladies skiff sailing will not take off. The aura will only succeed as a ladies skiff if it is selected for the 5 ring circus, or it is marketed as a skiff for lighter teams.
My reasons are as follows:
Plenty of young girls do 29er squad sailing - there are nearly as many girls as boys, and they seem to be on a pretty similar footing. All good. This is because the 29er is quick and exciting but accessible to a good sailor coming out of oppies/fevas etc. It is relatively cheap, physically accessible and also, DADDY IS PAYING. However, 29er sailing as a percentage of all U18 sailing activity will remain small. 
Fast forward to university age ( for the purposes of my demographic model, most girls who sail 29ers go to university)
Girls are now young ladies so no longer youth so the whole rya youth gravy train stops. Luckily, sailing is still provided for free (team racing) with awesome socials, so this usually is the main sailing avenue for young ladies of ages 18-22.
Get to graduating, and the attrition is pretty big for sailors, but particularly for girls. 
This is due to a number of factors:

Of the percentage of girls who sail, those who sail skiffs (well 29ers) up to 18 remains small in comparison to those sailing more conventional craft at club or even national level. 
Looking at dinghy sailing on the whole, how many rs200s are bought outright by all girl crews? Not many, I would venture, and whilst the competition is hot, a trained monkey could sail a 200 round a course, socials are good, boats plentiful etc. I. e it should be attractive on every level save a perception that it is not fast or exciting enough.
Now the problem with skiffs is that they aren't easy to sail until you know how. It's not a matter of physicality - you don't need strength or anything to sail one, but just like windsurfing, it requires a  load of esoteric skills, and until you learn them, you'll be doing more swimming than sailing. It is a fact of life that Girls are generally more risk averse than boys, and as with learning windsurfing, the fear of failure overcomes the need for achievement sooner. Girls have advantages over boys (generally) in other areas such as intuition and perception. Girls are motivated in very different ways and need very different coaching techniques than boys. 
Going forward to graduate level, those girls not at an elite level who will not have pursued "proper" sailing through uni rather than team racing are faced with a tricky choice. They are burdened with debt and not earning heaps. As such their disposable income is seeing a lot of competition. Do they: buy a skiff new, circa £11k split between two? That is equivalent to a 4 year old mini cooper, or 5 skiing holidays, or 10 pairs of Christian loboutin heels, or 50 Sienna miller esque haircuts or le creuset cookware or any combination thereof. How many girls would sacrifice all of that to swim around 10m radius of a swiftly depreciating rs800 for several months in the freezing cold with a similarly disillusioned pal in the hope that it eventually came together? Not many, especially if barely a handful would consider buying a boat and doing the 200 circuit with the superb attainable one design fleet racing and boozing/debauchery on a near team racing scale. 
Another difference between men and women as consumers is that the boys are more likely to be sold on a larger, unitary big ticket luxury item such as a sailboat (or motorbike / car etc) than a girl who (again generally speaking) would prefer her consumption spread out over smaller items giving a higher standard of living. 
The other undeniable truth is that by the time girls (and boys) are starting to earn well and are not so consumed by existential angst over which ikea coffee table best defines them as a person to contemplate buying a boat, then they are at a stage of  having to think about getting on the property ladder, and procreating. If we take the economics of rearing young out of this, would you make a large capital outlay on a luxury item that you would be unable to use for the next few year because you are too big/ knackered/ covered in stitches/ hormonal /unable to find a babysitter to use it?  I have seen a mate's wife windsurfing within 3 weeks of giving birth but I think she is in a big minority.
My tuppence worth.

Good post, Dan.

One point though, is that at least some skiff designers (the 12 Footer and R Class guys) think that high freeboard is fast. For the cost of a bit of windage and weight, you can get much more "survivability". It could be one of those factors that varies a lot depending on other issues like SA, LOA, etc.
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Chris 249 View Drop Down
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Posts: 2041 		Post Options Post Options   Quote Chris 249 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Oct 11 at 11:43pm
Originally posted by gbrspratt

i think your missing the point.... kids see high performance boats out sailing and go "hey that looks cool, how do i do that?" 
the answer is to start of at the bottom. in a mirror or feva or what ever. Showing AC and olympics just puts it out there even more for kids to see and start off at the bottom of ladder.

I'm NOT missing that point - the problem is that there is no such point!

The whole issue is that there is sod-all evidence that it actually works like that. In the most popular participant sports, people see the pros doing the same sort of sport that amateurs do, using pretty much the same equipment. People don't want to start at the bottom and spend years working up.

If you highlight the high-performance stuff, people get the impression that the sport is expensive, elitist and out of their reach - which is quite true, in that very few sailors will move onto boats like Skiffs. That's possibly why car racing, for example, is a tiny participant sport despite the fact that fast cars get lots of TV and huge funding.
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